Author Topic: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?  (Read 864548 times)

Offline Abaddon

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #915 on: January 06, 2013, 10:26:20 PM »
I think it was a BBC Tomorrows World proggy where they did the same thing with a single tile. Heated it up until it glowed, then handled it with bare hands.

It's a long time ago, but I can still see it in my minds eye.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #916 on: January 06, 2013, 11:05:16 PM »
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Echnaton

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #917 on: January 07, 2013, 07:16:35 AM »
But the 'for de-orbit burn they were pointed backwards so how did it turn around before re-entry?' line was priceless.

It is worthy of the moonman prize for cluelessness. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Peter B

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #918 on: January 07, 2013, 07:44:44 AM »

Thanks LO. Watching that actually gave me a little shiver of fear for the people picking up the tiles. Also, seeing the glow on the large tile when the smaller one is picked up...amazing technology.

I assume the 2200 degrees was Fahrenheit, which would make about 1200 degrees Celsius. The highest temperature I deal with is 220 degrees, cooking pizzas in the oven. Obviously no problems putting my hands in the air there, but I'm very careful to not touch anything. Adding another 1000-odd degrees on top of that, and picking the tiles up within seconds...

But, according to Heiwa, no use for protecting the Shuttle. And anyway, he couldn't work out how they stuck them on, despite all the news stories from the late 1970s about the problems NASA had working out exactly that.
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Offline Abaddon

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #919 on: January 07, 2013, 12:11:13 PM »

Not the one I was thinking of but the very same principle.

Love the shaky hand going to pick it up, LOL.

Bet I would be pretty cautious too. It flies in the face of intuition.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #920 on: January 07, 2013, 12:28:17 PM »
Watching that actually gave me a little shiver of fear for the people picking up the tiles.

Always by the edges.  If you pick them up by the faces, you may lose your fingerprints.  The faces are still very, very hot.

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...amazing technology.

They make good frisbees too.  The material has about the same density as expanded polystyrene.  It's just weighty enough to throw, but not so dense that it hurts when one hits you.  Don't ask.

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The highest temperature I deal with is 220 degrees, cooking pizzas in the oven. Obviously no problems putting my hands in the air there, but I'm very careful to not touch anything.

The commercial pizza ovens I used were set to 370 C and could cook a full-sized pizza in 5-7 minutes.  It's a conveyor oven so you don't have to reach inside.  But you still use gloves and pliers to handle the products.  Now I want to put a shuttle tile in one and see what happens.

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But, according to Heiwa, no use for protecting the Shuttle.

Right, according to him nothing works unless he can personally figure out how.

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And anyway, he couldn't work out how they stuck them on...

More proof that he doesn't work in any sort of engineering science or industry.  One thing you learn working in aerospace, or indeed in any scientific or industrial field, is that you get to use technologies and products whose capability far exceeds anything you find in the consumer world.  For safety reasons the people who handle and use them often have to be trained and certified, so they can't be sold directly to the public.  Industrial adhesives are a good example.  We have some epoxies that produce harmful fumes, are tremendously toxic until the cure, and will practically stick a car to the side of a building.  And we have some pressure-sensitive adhesives that will literally tear your skin if you accidentally put your finger on them.  Obviously for liability purposes these products are used by or sold to the general public, but they exist in the inventory of materials we can bring to bear.

Shuttle tile stickum is serious stuff.  I wonder what Anders would say if he found out the wing spars on commercial airliners are glue-laminated aluminum.  But you can see why he's so desperate to be seen as some kind of engineer.  If Joe Random Layman can't figure out how something is done in the space program, it's because it's, well, the space program.  But if he argues, "I can't see how this could have been done, and I'm a very smart engineer with lots of expertise," then the argument almost becomes convincing.  That's why he bristles when people tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline sts60

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #921 on: January 07, 2013, 01:33:25 PM »
Although I've been in and around various Shuttles, I have no experience with the tiles other than seeing a lot of them at close range.  In my current line of work, we deal with quite the opposite of the superlightweight, fragile, reusable tiles - mostly three-dimensional heavy graphite forms to ablatively protect heat sources during reentry.  These derive from similar technologies used for missile reentry vehicles - a dry euphemism for the things intended to erase cities from the map.  These heat sources, though (iike the ones on Cassini or New Horizons or Curiousity), are intended to tumble upon reentry and disperse the heating and ablative wear, while keeping the fuel clads inside at the right temperature to remain ductile for maximum impact resistance.

And there has been a huge amount of analysis and test that have gone into such materials and items, over many decades, over all the applications of ablative techniques.  It's hysterically funny that Heiwa makes out that ablative materials are "SECRET" and "magic" as if plenty of information isn't a few seconds away by Google.  It's like saying that GE or Rolls-Royce is hiding what goes on inside a jet engine - actually, it's more like being unaware of the existence of jet propulsion. 

It's not just ignorance; it's aggresively incompetent ignorance.

Offline Echnaton

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #922 on: January 07, 2013, 05:01:53 PM »
And we have some pressure-sensitive adhesives that will literally tear your skin if you accidentally put your finger on them.
I've been looking for something like that for quite some time to solve a problem that would otherwise cost ~$500 for a professional to solve by replacing a long gasket.  But the fumble finger factor is a concern. 
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Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #923 on: January 07, 2013, 08:20:32 PM »


The only thing more unbelievable than the material science is that they're inviting people to handle them.
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #924 on: January 07, 2013, 09:05:07 PM »
I know I'd be nervous about picking one up. I'd be worried that it would slip from my fingers and I'd instinctively try to catch it.

It makes me think of the glass floor in the CN Tower... I know they say it's strong enough to support 4 elephants (or something like that), but I still have a mini heart attack when some kid jumps up and down on it beside me.

While I was looking for that other video I also found another one from the late 1970s that shows people practicing the application of the tiles on an old DC-3.

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #925 on: January 07, 2013, 09:51:18 PM »
It makes me think of the glass floor in the CN Tower... I know they say it's strong enough to support 4 elephants (or something like that), but I still have a mini heart attack when some kid jumps up and down on it beside me.

"Fourteen large hippos".  I'm not sure how they quantify "large" though!

http://www.cntower.ca/en-CA/Plan-Your-Visit/Attractions/Glass-Floor.html
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Offline raven

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #926 on: January 07, 2013, 09:55:22 PM »
I've always wondered what would have happened if the Shuttle had been operational in time to visit Skylab? Not much of a change, I know, but still a wonderment worthwhile asking.

Offline Noldi400

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #927 on: January 07, 2013, 10:53:34 PM »

Not the one I was thinking of but the very same principle.

Love the shaky hand going to pick it up, LOL.

Bet I would be pretty cautious too. It flies in the face of intuition.
I realize that this work was being done years after Apollo, but how - to reference a claim you seem to hear a lot - can a person with enough intelligence to scratch when they itch think it would be that difficult to design boots that would stand up to a hot lunar surface?

Jay, I have a question for you, if you don't mind. I know we hear that it would take us a time measured in decades to make a return manned lunar trip.

However, let me put it this way: what if the conditions were similar to those at the time of Apollo? i.e., IF it were put on the footing of a National Crash Program (as Apollo was), and IF the public (and therefore politicians) were squarely behind it, and IF the budget was practically unlimited, and IF we were willing to take greater calculated risks with astronaut safety... how long do you think it would take, given our current level of technology and knowledge?
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline Tanalia

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #928 on: January 07, 2013, 11:03:01 PM »
Obviously for liability purposes these products are used by or sold to the general public, but they exist in the inventory of materials we can bring to bear.

I think you wanted the opposite sense on the first part of that...

Offline sts60

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #929 on: January 07, 2013, 11:11:53 PM »
I realize that this work was being done years after Apollo, but how - to reference a claim you seem to hear a lot - can a person with enough intelligence to scratch when they itch think it would be that difficult to design boots that would stand up to a hot lunar surface?
What the heck does he thinks firefighters wear?  Open-toes sandals?   My turnout boots would have no problem with such temperatures - and the Apollo crews left before the surface got that hot.