Apollo 15: Hadley Rille from orbit

[onebigmonkey]

So turbonium over on ATS brought up his (and/or her) disagreement with Japan's Kaguya analysis of the burn halo around Apollo 15's LM.

Usual stuff, but I was irked enough to find Chandrayaan's view of the same thing, as they'd also published a paper on it.

Here are the two sources I looked at:

http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2008/05/20080520_kaguya_e.html

http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2008/05/20080520_kaguya_e.html

When I looked closely at the Chandrayaan image, I spotted something.

When I then looked at Kaguya's image, I spotted the same thing.

Here's a comparison of Indias view (left), Japan's (right) and the LRO (centre).



You can argue about the influence of the engine on the surface all you like, but for my one there is incontrovertible evidence of disturbed ground exactly where the LM is. Japan's image also has clear evidence of the same kind of disturbance around the location of the ALSEP, and hint of a trail towards it. India's image could, if it were possible to get a version without the red line of the halo boundary, arguably contain similar evidence of disturbance around the ALSEP and LRV final parking spot.

The Japanese reference above also mentions an Apollo 15 Panoramic Camera image, AS15-9430.

While the version of that image at the Apollo Image Atlas is low quality, the online scan available (and downloadable) at the ASU is very good. Here's what you can see when you zoom into the area of where the LM ended up, and enhance things a little:



and here is the LRO view of the same area:



That's pretty impressive I'm sure you'll agree. What is also impressive is that while the JAXA site claims the image was taken in the first couple of orbits after landing, it is incorrect - it was actually taken on Rev 27, just after the end of the first EVA. That first EVA's job was to set up the ALSEP, and that is exactly where you can see a trail heading.

There were, however, other Panoramic images taken in the early part of the mission, and here's one of them from orbit 16, AS15-9370, cropped and enhanced again:



This image was taken about 22 hours before the previous one, and before the first EVA. Not only is there no evidence of any disturbed ground, the LM shadow is considerably longer.

We also have another pan cam shot taken after the LM had returned to orbit, and while it is less clear than the other two, there is evidently more evidence of human activity - including around where the LRV was parked up before lift off:



The LM shadow has all but disappeared from this view.

So there we are - not only did Japan and India get a view of what Apollo astronauts were up to at Hadley, the CSM's panoramic camera did too

[bknight]

Your eyes are way better than mine.  Here is the image and I know what I'm looking for and still can't find the LM.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15.pan9430.jpg

All I am able to make out is a piece of the Rill.

[onebigmonkey]

Try here:

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?camera=P&image_name=AS15-P-9430

I should have linked to those originally

To see others just replace the last 4 digits with the image you want to see.

The entire collection can be accessed here:

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/browse/

[BertieSlack]

So there we are - not only did Japan and India get a view of what Apollo astronauts were up to at Hadley, the CSM's panoramic camera did too

GoneToPlaid published a masterful video on Youtube which showed deconvolved and enhanced versions of the A15 orbital photos of the A15 landing site (panoramic and metric cameras). They were superb. Sadly the video disappeared when GTP closed his account. IIRC, the versions published after the mission were deliberately lower resolution than the originals because NASA didn't want the Soviets to know how good their orbital imaging capability had become.

[onebigmonkey]

GoneToPlaid published a masterful video on Youtube which showed deconvolved and enhanced versions of the A15 orbital photos of the A15 landing site (panoramic and metric cameras). They were superb. Sadly the video disappeared when GTP closed account. IIRC, the versions published after the mission were deliberately lower resolution than the originals because NASA didn't want the Soviets to know how good their orbital imaging capability had become.

Well you learn something new everyday

On another mission, here's what you can see from Apollo 17

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?camera=P&image_name=AS17-P-2750

[bknight]

GoneToPlaid published a masterful video on Youtube which showed deconvolved and enhanced versions of the A15 orbital photos of the A15 landing site (panoramic and metric cameras). They were superb. Sadly the video disappeared when GTP closed account. IIRC, the versions published after the mission were deliberately lower resolution than the originals because NASA didn't want the Soviets to know how good their orbital imaging capability had become.

Well you learn something new everyday

On another mission, here's what you can see from Apollo 17

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/apollo/view?camera=P&image_name=AS17-P-2750

After A11 where the command pilots able to view the landers with there telescopes?

[onebigmonkey]

After A11 where the command pilots able to view the landers with there telescopes?

I believe other missions did catch sight of the LMs on the ground.

[smartcooky]

So there we are - not only did Japan and India get a view of what Apollo astronauts were up to at Hadley, the CSM's panoramic camera did too

GoneToPlaid published a masterful video on Youtube which showed deconvolved and enhanced versions of the A15 orbital photos of the A15 landing site (panoramic and metric cameras). They were superb. Sadly the video disappeared when GTP closed his account. IIRC, the versions published after the mission were deliberately lower resolution than the originals because NASA didn't want the Soviets to know how good their orbital imaging capability had become.

Do you mean this one

[onebigmonkey]

Do you mean this one

That one just seems to be LRO views? Fantastic work by him as usual though. Must dig out my 3d specs

[bknight]

What is interesting to me, the foot/rover tracks .  I remember a blunder video where he attempted to sweep them under the regolith as they couldn't be identified from that altitude.

[Allan F]

And he was correct. BUT the disturbance on the surface caused by the kicking of dust - that is visible. And boy wonder didn't know about that.

[BertieSlack]

Do you mean this one

No - it was a different one. When GoneToPlaid closed his YT account, he gave Astrobrant2 access to all his videos so that Brant could upload them to his own account so that his work would be available to the rest of us. Brant's been busy with other stuff, but I might start bugging him to upload the one about the A15 mission photos from orbit.

[onebigmonkey]

As always with such things it's always disappointing to find that you have been beaten to it, but I'd love to see what GTP did with the images!

Going back to my version, given that this photo is taken at the end of EVA-1, as is my first image from Apollo 15's Panoramic camera, do people think that the small object next to the LM is the parked up rover?

It isn't there in LRO shots or the other Panoramic camera shots, and the view south towards St George is consistent with the idea.

[BertieSlack]

I'd love to see what GTP did with the images!

IIRC, he concentrated on one taken after the LM had returned to orbit.

[bknight]

And he was correct. BUT the disturbance on the surface caused by the kicking of dust - that is visible. And boy wonder didn't know about that.

I wasn't talking about the individual marks which would be too small to differentiate from that altitude with the camera on board, but rather the evidence of the walking driving etc.

I saw your avatar in the 1 million euro challenge also, never could figure out what it said until I saw a larger image.