ApolloHoax.net
Apollo Discussions => The Reality of Apollo => Topic started by: geo7863 on March 26, 2013, 03:55:42 PM
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Hi all, does anyone here have the ability to enhance an online image with decent clarity? I have used standard basic Microsoft 'paint' to increase the size of this photo (as a jpeg file) but surely someone can do better... the specific area I want to see is his watch :D
I collect watches, and watches associated with space flight in particular. Now I love Omega watches and Omega Speedmaster's have been NASA's choice since the Gemini programme. An Omega Speedmaster was the first watch worn on the moon (Buzz Aldrin's as Neil Armstrong left his in the LM because the on-board timer went south!)
However, contrary to some Omega claims, the Speedmaster wasn't the ONLY watch worn on the Moon! Dave Scott used his issued Speedmaster on Apollo 15 for both EVA 1 and EVA 2 but because of the increased time in the Lunar sun the watch crystal popped off on EVA 2. On EVA 3 he wore an unofficial Waltham Chronograph. I can only find two photos of Scott on EVA 3 where his watch is visible. and the second of these two is this one......
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11168HR.jpg
A marvellous chap called Chuck Maddox (RIP) was an authority on watches and Omega's in particular, he reckoned he had tracked it down to one specific Waltham watch (due to something Dave Scott says in his book, that the Waltham was "close in style to the Speedmaster" and due to the years of manufacture of various Waltham chronographs), but this watch came with different cases!
It is probably THE mystery of the 'Space watch' community... I reckon I know which watchcase Dave's watch is, I just want to know if anyone can make a better 'close-up' than I can with my bog-standard HP Notebook! :D
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Tricky. Enhancement doesn't work like in CSI. There is techniques like superresolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superresolution), but they work best with multple images I believe. GonetoPlaid does a bunch a funky voodoo that helps him get extra detail out of LRO photos, so they might be able to help you.
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Tricky. Enhancement doesn't work like in CSI. There is techniques like superresolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superresolution), but they work best with multple images I believe. GonetoPlaid does a bunch a funky voodoo that helps him get extra detail out of LRO photos, so they might be able to help you.
Cheers for that, there is a photo of Gordon Cooper being weighed in prior to his Mercury flight, and someone somewhere has 'enhanced' a close up of his wristwatch and it is clear as a day...when I 'enlarge' the same photo on my old computer it certainly isn't clear as day!
Like I say I think I know which watch Scott wore, because of the basic shape of the case and the apparent lack of watch lugs...but I would love to have a better photo to confirm my belief :D
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Nope. The image just isn't in the ballpark required to try to ID a watch..
The highest res version I can find is here (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo15/hires/as15-82-11168.jpg) at around 4000 x 4000 pixels (better scan sources, anyone?).
Here's a crop of the area in question, adjusted a little to try to show the low-contrast detail..
(http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/uploadsgallery/gallery_95887_37_6093.jpg)
(I hope such hotlinking is allowed - I gather this forum doesn't allow image uploads?..)
So where's the watch supposed to be? I can magnify that area but you won't see much more than you can see there, with some added 'noise' from the original film grain (and a bit of jpeg blocking) - I've already looked at both wrists...
The original tif scan might be slightly better, but still not anywhere near good enough to get that ID.. :D
As image enlargement and enhancement is of great interest to me, I'd love to see that Gordon Cooper example you refer to - link please?
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That link you posted is a better resolution than the one I have thanks... and I will try and post the photos that I have of Cooper's weigh-in and then his watch :D
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And here is Dave Scots watch, the 'Mystery' watch, from the photos on the NASA site and the link that you posted!
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Ah, I see - yep the Cooper example has the watch occupying a lot more angular distance in the frame, so it was 'ripe' for enlargement by going to the best possible scan - I doubt whether much enhancing actually happened - the watch was pretty much that clear in the original image...
And although you've narrowed it down to the hand, I can't say I'm sure what I'm seeing that might be watch face /lugs or band - it just looks like a mush of strappy stuff. Magnifying just shows grain and artefacts..
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Ah, I see - yep the Cooper example has the watch occupying a lot more angular distance in the frame, so it was 'ripe' for enlargement by going to the best possible scan - I doubt whether much enhancing actually happened - the watch was pretty much that clear in the original image...
And although you've narrowed it down to the hand, I can't say I'm sure what I'm seeing that might be watch face /lugs or band - it just looks like a mush of strappy stuff. Magnifying just shows grain and artefacts..
It isnt clear when I have increased the size on my computer! ;D (edited to add...mind you I don't have the original photo on my computer!)
The watch on Dave Scott's arm is further up his left forearm, just below elbow level, on each wrist he has an aide memoire/checklist booklet!
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Ah, woops! I was looking in the wrong place.
That area is badly jpeg blocked - I'll try to find a source for the original uncompressed image, but it might be a while - I've got a busy period coming up and right now I just need to sleep.. But in the meantime..
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Learned opinion (not mine as I am not learned ;D) is that the watch is one of these.....
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or one of these........ the Movement and dial are the same just different cases!
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Archive.org is always a worth a try for high resolution versions.
In this case we have a 45Mb TIFF available here:
http://archive.org/details/AS15-82-11168 (http://archive.org/details/AS15-82-11168)
On which I've tweaked the levels and sharpened a bit here:
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9103/scott2v.png)
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Archive.org is always a worth a try for high resolution versions.
In this case we have a 45Mb TIFF available here:
http://archive.org/details/AS15-82-11168 (http://archive.org/details/AS15-82-11168)
On which I've tweaked the levels and sharpened a bit here:
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9103/scott2v.png)
Thanks for that...mmm..interesting, the white 'tachymetre' ring and the hands are plainly visible, but the three white sub-dials are not... I am just wondering now if it is a differnt Waltham entirely? however, the case appears to be oblong-ish and not round, so that might rule out the Carerra style case (the second watch photo that I have posted) and I am still not sure if I can see a lug by the strap...interesting indeed!
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Bet you wish Jim Irwin had aimed the camera a little more to the right in AS15-82-11145 and AS15-82-11146. The watch would probably be a little out of focus, but possibly clearer than what you have.
From the Apollo LunarSurface Journal:
AS15-82-11145 http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11145HR.jpg
165:49:55 Excellent cross-Sun "after" from the north of the Station 9a outcrop sample. Dave is reaching for the hammer. Note that he has checklists on both arms. The one on his left wrist covers the drilling tasks that have occupied him on all three EVAs. Note that Dave is not wearing a camera, because Jim is using it to take this picture. Dave is holding individual sample bag 281 in his left hand. Note that we can see at least one rock fragment in the bag.
AS15-82-11146 http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11146HR.jpg
165:49:55 Similar to 11145. Dave is about to grab the hammer. Note that Jim did not move left or right between frames.
Would a super-highres copy of this one help?
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-88-11863HR.jpg
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Bet you wish Jim Irwin had aimed the camera a little more to the right in AS15-82-11145 and AS15-82-11146. The watch would probably be a little out of focus, but possibly clearer than what you have.
From the Apollo LunarSurface Journal:
AS15-82-11145 http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11145HR.jpg
165:49:55 Excellent cross-Sun "after" from the north of the Station 9a outcrop sample. Dave is reaching for the hammer. Note that he has checklists on both arms. The one on his left wrist covers the drilling tasks that have occupied him on all three EVAs. Note that Dave is not wearing a camera, because Jim is using it to take this picture. Dave is holding individual sample bag 281 in his left hand. Note that we can see at least one rock fragment in the bag.
AS15-82-11146 http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-82-11146HR.jpg
165:49:55 Similar to 11145. Dave is about to grab the hammer. Note that Jim did not move left or right between frames.
Would a super-highres copy of this one help?
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-88-11863HR.jpg
The first two would have been absolutely ideal... if, as you say, Jim Irwin had only moved a wee bit to the right when he took these shots! :D
The one of Dave Scott saluting..was that taken on EVA-3? if so then yes it would possibly help to have a higher resolution! There is also a couple of shots post-splashdown where the crew are coming off the Chopper onto the Ship, one is of Dave Scott walking alongside and talking to Robert Gilruth (I think!) that image is on my other computer so I cant post it here but that shows his watch fairly well (once again a higher resolution imagewould be needed though).
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The first two would have been absolutely ideal... if, as you say, Jim Irwin had only moved a wee bit to the right when he took these shots! :D
The one of Dave Scott saluting..was that taken on EVA-3? if so then yes it would possibly help to have a higher resolution! There is also a couple of shots post-splashdown where the crew are coming off the Chopper onto the Ship, one is of Dave Scott walking alongside and talking to Robert Gilruth (I think!) that image is on my other computer so I cant post it here but that shows his watch fairly well (once again a higher resolution imagewould be needed though).
I've had a quick look at the image above (there's a 4Mb one here (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo15/hires/as15-88-11863.jpg) ) but it's inconclusive. There is a suggestion of white dials at the bottom, but it could equally be reflected glare, and it is less clear on the one linked to in the previous post.
One thought: there is a considerable amount of video from EVA3 - there must be a high resolution source out there somewhere that shows the watch?
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I have been slowly watching the vid's of EVA 3...nothing so-far they are quite grainy!... there is also this photo post splashdown exiting the chopper..
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/ap15-S71-42065.jpg
and then this one (which I mentioned earlier) of Scott talking wwith Robert Gilruth
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/ap15-S71-42090.jpg
each of these is less than a MB..so I dont know how 'workable' they are for enlargement...however the second photo does show a watch which (too my tired old eyes!) appears to have an 'oblong' watch case and not a round one...so if it is the Waltham Watch (and seeing as his issued speedmaster popped its crystal requiring him to wear the Waltham in the first place, there is no reason to see why it could be any other watch) It may still be the one that a lot of people beleive it to be!
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The whole issue stems around Dave Scott saying in his book that he wore a "Waltham watch (which was) of a similar type" to the speedmaster, not my brackets, this is taken from here...
http://chronomaddox.com/moonmovement.html.
Now this is going by Scott's own judgement of 'similar type'..does he mean that it had a round case? that it had three sub-dials?.. and if so that these sub-dials were in the same location as on the Speedmaster? Does he mean that the watch face was one continous colour?
I have not seen a 3 sub-dialled Waltham Watch with the sub-dials in the same location as on the Speedmaster, other than the 'panda' dial watches ...more importantly experts like Chuck Maddox didnt either... obviously that doesnt mean that they didnt exist.
There have been suggestions of another Waltham with 3 sub-dials, but the movement wasnt manufactured until 1974...so not Dave Scotts watch. There were however Waltham's with the Valjoux 7734 movement which had two sub-dials, and these were definitely manufactured before Apollo 15 and definitely had one colour (as well as the 'Panda') dials!
I wonder if Dave Scott could pick out 'the' watch if he had a bunch in front of him? After all even though I am highly interested in watches now... I couldnt identify a single watch I wore whilst I served 17 years in the forces until the Issued watch and strap that I got when I was entitled to grab one from the stores on promotion.