ApolloHoax.net
Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: Rob48 on February 18, 2016, 04:15:54 PM
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but what is the tall white object in the background of this video?
There's no original sound on the relevant section, but I believe this is Aldrin descending the ladder, correct? So is the white thing a piece of equipment already set up by Armstrong?
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but what is the tall white object in the background of this video?
There's no original sound on the relevant section, but I believe this is Aldrin descending the ladder, correct? So is the white thing a piece of equipment already set up by Armstrong?
It is NOT A 11, as the high gain antenna is in the picture, and that wasn't erected until A 12. My first guess it is a lens flare artifact.
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believe this is Aldrin descending the ladder, correct?
Tell us WHY you believe this.
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It's the TV camera that is footage from the 16mm camera..
(https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-47-6979HR.jpg)
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PS It's Apollo 12 not 11... :)
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believe this is Aldrin descending the ladder, correct?
Tell us WHY you believe this.
Because the same footage is in "For all Mankind", and he says the bit about "making sure not to lock it on my way out", which was Aldrin.
But then perhaps the audio and video were not matched up? I know FAM is pretty shoddy with the historical record.
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PS It's Apollo 12 not 11... :)
Well that's what I thought originally, but the "For All Mankind" footage threw me off the scent.
BTW I am certainly not a hoax believer, or a believer that there were aliens/glass domes/monoliths/Clangers there when Apollo arrived. I just wanted to know what it was! :D
Edit: the footage is at 6:10 here. That is Aldrin's voice over the top isn't it? But it's inserted in the middle of an interview with Pete Conrad!
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believe this is Aldrin descending the ladder, correct?
Tell us WHY you believe this.
Because the same footage is in "For all Mankind", and he says the bit about "making sure not to lock it on my way out", which was Aldrin.
But then perhaps the audio and video were not matched up? I know FAM is pretty shoddy with the historical record.
FAM is essentially a movie, and yes - there are instances where the audio doesn't match the footage.
However, someone above says Apollo 12, and if you compare the viewpoint of the YT video with the antenna, and look beyond the LM, the 'tower' seems to match the position of the Surveyor craft... so I'd suggest it's that.
http://lunarscience.NASA.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/M175428601RE_25cm_AP12_area.png
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/lroc_20090903_apollo12.html#.VsY-mxiLRko
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Probably a more representative photo showing the (burned out) TV camera..
(https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-46-6779HR.jpg)
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As stated, the hi gain antenna gives away the fact, it is not Apollo 11.
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Probably a more representative photo showing the (burned out) TV camera..
(https://www.hq.NASA.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-46-6779HR.jpg)
Good point re the antenna, I should have spotted that.
Are you sure about it being the camera though? It doesn't look like the right location, based on the location of the high-gain antenna, which is closest to the "up sun" leg of the LM, i.e. opposite the ladder, which was on the shaded side.
From that picture, the camera is up-sun from the LM.
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The shape gives an indication that it's the TV Camera if I wasn't just on my way to bed I'd search some more, I'm sure if you look, there will be an almost exact match for the 16mm view with a HR image.
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Unless I've got my angles totally wrong, it looks as though the footage of Bean descending the ladder was taken from that camera, or at least a point near to it. So that can't be what is visible on the far side of the LM.
Once again, I am certainly not advocating any kind of conspiracy theory, I am just genuinely curious.
I did look through the A12 magazines on Flickr a few days ago (when I thought it was A12, and before I got misdirected onto A11!) but I couldn't find anything visible in the right area.
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This is from AS12-47-6993, part of a 360-degree panorama. It looks to be in roughly the right location, based on the sun location. Normally I would dismiss it as a lens flare but the fact it is near the mystery object makes me wonder.
(http://i.imgur.com/nOn5jvj.png)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/21036946644/in/album-72157659014150521/
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https://www.hq.NASA.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-48-7100.jpg
I can't make out from the YT video if the direction of the antenna matches or not. The relative positions of Surveyor 2 as the 'tower', LM and antenna would seem to match, though
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https://www.hq.NASA.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-48-7100.jpg
I can't make out from the YT video if the direction of the antenna matches or not. The relative positions of Surveyor 2 as the 'tower', LM and antenna would seem to match, though
Yes that looks a lot more plausible. The angles seem to match up, and it looks a lot more distant from the LM than any of the deployed equipment. I think it must be Surveyor :D
I can't see the Surveyor in any of the panoramas shot from near the LM though, which is a bit strange.
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One of the "problems" with attempting to answer the question is that the proponents rarely reference the image number with their claim.
I have been browsing the library of A 12 and A14 and I can't find a match to the image.
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One of the "problems" with attempting to answer the question is that the proponents rarely reference the image number with their claim.
I have been browsing the library of A 12 and A14 and I can't find a match to the image.
Well the YT video uses 16mm footage, doesn't it, not a still?
The closest matches to the viewpoint I can see are AS12-6728 to 6730, showing Bean coming down the ladder.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/21700173935/in/album-72157659081038325/
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https://www.hq.NASA.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-48-7100.jpg
I can't make out from the YT video if the direction of the antenna matches or not. The relative positions of Surveyor 2 as the 'tower', LM and antenna would seem to match, though
Yes that looks a lot more plausible. The angles seem to match up, and it looks a lot more distant from the LM than any of the deployed equipment. I think it must be Surveyor :D
I can't see the Surveyor in any of the panoramas shot from near the LM though, which is a bit strange.
Here is one of the images of Surveyor 3, which was the landing site for A 12.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-46-6741HR.jpg It is still in deep shadow on the eastern wall of Surveyor crator. Zoom up on the left side of the image and you will see the craft.
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Here is one of the images of Surveyor 3, which was the landing site for A 12.
http://www.hq.NASA.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-46-6741HR.jpg It is still in deep shadow on the eastern wall of Surveyor crator. Zoom up on the left side of the image and you will see the craft.
Yes I just came across that one. Which rules out Surveyor as being the tall brightly lit object. In AS12-48-7100 it is in the sun, which confused me.
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Which rules out Surveyor as being the tall brightly lit object.
Why?
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A fair number of Apollo surface photos were damaged by dust getting on the film. Wedged between it and the reseau plate, the emulsion got scratched when the film was wound. The film was moved vertically, so vertical scratches (some very short) are characteristic.
There are a number of giveaways to identify Apollo surface pictures. As others have pointed out, only Apollos 12 and 14 used the standalone S-band dish. Apollo 12's flag hung limply on its pole because the lock for the horizontal bar didn't work.
Surveyor is of course a dead giveaway for Apollo 12, though as others have pointed out it was still in shadow during the first EVA.
The J missions (15-17) had the rovers, of course, and all landed in mountainous areas. 11, 12 and 14 were in marias.
Another clue is the positioning of the antennas on the LM, rover, ALSEP or the standalone dish. Use a map of the landing sites to estimate the look angles (e.g. Apollo 12 was far to the west, so its antennas pointed eastward, in the same direction as the sun but at a higher angle.) You can do the same with the laser reflectors; if you see one you also know it's Apollo 11, 14 or 15.
A special case is Apollo 16. The high gain antenna on Orion failed to "uncage" so you'll see it pointed directly aft instead of up at the sky.
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Can anyone pinpoint which EVA the film clip was taken from, or know where the original can be seen?
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Which rules out Surveyor as being the tall brightly lit object.
Why?
Well it appears that from a viewpoint near the LM, Surveyor was tucked down in a crater. Even if the sun was on it I don't see that it could appear above the horizon in the film clip in question.
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Can anyone pinpoint which EVA the film clip was taken from, or know where the original can be seen?
OK, I've figured it out. This is actually from Apollo 14, and it's Edgar Mitchell coming down the ladder for the second time in the first EVA. See this video which shows the 16mm alongside the TV footage:
And to complete the picture, the "tower" is the SWC, which you can see Mitchell deploying from about 114:11:36 (video clips in Surface Journal at https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/ )
If you watch the video clip starting just before that, the "tower" is not there. https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/a14v.1140848.rm
Then you see the SWC being deployed, and although it is not too clear at first, you can see it on the right spot in the next video segment: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/a14v.1141246.rm
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Here's a stitched panorama showing the SWC in the deployed location (A14-66-9302 to 9309).
(http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/Panoramas/HR/A14-66-9302-09HR.jpg)
In the film, only the portion sticking above the distant horizon is actually visible, as the lower part is hidden by the bright lunar surface. It makes quite a convincing illusion of being distant even though it is only a few metres beyond the LM shadow.
Mystery solved :D
(If you're wondering how the SWC can appear in the background of Mitchell coming down the ladder during the first EVA, when it was Mitchell who deployed it on the surface, it's because Mitchell went back inside to change the comms switch after deploying the high-gain antenna (and SWC). The film shows him coming out for the second time.)
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The mystery was what it is, not a "tower" on the moon as the original video suggested.
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The mystery was what it is, not a "tower" on the moon as the original video suggested.
Well quite. Sorry if I implied otherwise with my original post; that wasn't my intention. Clearly there wasn't really a giant tower looming over the horizon and yet not remarked on or showing up in photos, but it's quite an effective illusion.
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The mystery was what it is, not a "tower" on the moon as the original video suggested.
Well quite. Sorry if I implied otherwise with my original post; that wasn't my intention. Clearly there wasn't really a giant tower looming over the horizon and yet not remarked on or showing up in photos, but it's quite an effective illusion.
I wasn't inferring that it was your opinion, just the intention of the video. :)
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And this is why I love this site. Someone has asked a question. What is that thing?
The hoaxer immediately jumps to "the mission was faked because I don't know what that thing is". End of search. Unanswered question means hoax.
The other side (you guys) are actually trying to answer the question. That's the difference. The hoaxer doesn't want the answer. He wants the question to remain unanswered.
And when someone presents a reasonable hypothesis (it's the camera, or it's one of the Surveyors), you don't just accept it. You scatter about trying to confirm it. Nope. That's not it - let's keep trying. And this kind of ACTUAL research is how the truth becomes known. I would suggest that anyone who has reasoning skills who is on the fence about this (I don't know if that person exists) should read this thread and judge for themselves which side is right - when it is so abundantly clear whose researching skills are superior.
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Here's a stitched panorama showing the SWC in the deployed location (A14-66-9302 to 9309).
(http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/Panoramas/HR/A14-66-9302-09HR.jpg)
In the film, only the portion sticking above the distant horizon is actually visible, as the lower part is hidden by the bright lunar surface. It makes quite a convincing illusion of being distant even though it is only a few metres beyond the LM shadow.
Mystery solved :D
(If you're wondering how the SWC can appear in the background of Mitchell coming down the ladder during the first EVA, when it was Mitchell who deployed it on the surface, it's because Mitchell went back inside to change the comms switch after deploying the high-gain antenna (and SWC). The film shows him coming out for the second time.)
Distances can be deceiving when viewing objects on the moon as the SWC was not far from the LM
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They certainly can. Just look (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kcUwZ8rRjI) at the famous 'house rock' from Apollo 16. Even the astronauts were having trouble, and they had a binocular view.
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This video shows the whole sequence. At 16:25 you can see there is no object there, and Mitchell walks over and starts setting up the SWC. He gets it out and plants it between about 17:40 and 18:00. Then he climbs back up into the LM at 27:45 and re-emerges at 39:30 (after the cut).
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This video shows the whole sequence. At 16:25 you can see there is no object there, and Mitchell walks over and starts setting up the SWC. He gets it out and plants it between about 17:40 and 18:00. Then he climbs back up into the LM at 27:45 and re-emerges at 39:30 (after the cut).
Did you post this link and your comments on the YT channel?
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This video shows the whole sequence. At 16:25 you can see there is no object there, and Mitchell walks over and starts setting up the SWC. He gets it out and plants it between about 17:40 and 18:00. Then he climbs back up into the LM at 27:45 and re-emerges at 39:30 (after the cut).
Did you post this link and your comments on the YT channel?
Yes.
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This video shows the whole sequence. At 16:25 you can see there is no object there, and Mitchell walks over and starts setting up the SWC. He gets it out and plants it between about 17:40 and 18:00. Then he climbs back up into the LM at 27:45 and re-emerges at 39:30 (after the cut).
Did you post this link and your comments on the YT channel?
Yes.
Now we're talking. I'll drop over and have a look at the comments to yours.!