Film of Rover tracks being covered

[Lenticular Cloud]

Hi all, first post on here and actually going to ask almost exactly the same question I first started looking on this site for. It is purely for a sense of confirmation really, but is there any film that actually shows dust being kicked and thereby obscuring the rover tracks? Failing that, any clearly identifiable feature like a footprint? It's the one thing that bugs me, not in the sense that I don't believe it is the explanation, but more that I can't see it in my minds eye that it obscures tracks so effectively.

I admit I am being a tad lazy here, I don't really have the time (or inclination) to plough through every piece of film from the rover missions, I guess I'm half hoping someone may just pop up and say, "Oh, that's AS16-dot-dot-dot you want". If you can help, I'd be grateful.

About me, I can remember watching the first landing on TV (TBH I think some of the wonder of it was wasted on my seven year old younger self). Weirdly I seem to have a memory of being woken to watch it, which given that I was in NZ at the tie doesn't gel with one of your antipodean member's comment on the film having to be flown I've from Aus, but maybe I'd been naughty that day, who knows. Anyway, these days I support trading applications at a moderately large bank, have a fairly logical frame of mind, I completed two thirds of an Applied Physics degree before bailing and using the cheap flights from my Dad's old job before they disappeared to travel the world again.

Many thanks

PS. I love this site. Science is great at explaining things. My most enjoyable moment here so far  was seeing the link to architecture of the F5 cones, even after forty-something years I never realised just how damn complicated they were. Thank you.

[mako88sb]

Not sure if the below link will suffice. I found it helped a lot for myself to better understand the vagaries of this topic.

https://www.metabunk.org/why-does-the-lunar-lander-leave-not-tracks.t2818/

I got Virtual Apollo not to long ago and it's pretty incredible to see how much engineering went into the CM is. I believe there's a quote in the book about hoe it's still regarded as one of the most complex craft ever built. Would be interesting to see Orion get the same treatment once it becomes operational. Highly recommend the book if you don't have it.

[Lenticular Cloud]

Thanks for that. Coincidentally I had been to that very page about fifteen minutes before posting, but had a bit of a phone fail, getting to that first big set of ads and thinking it was the bottom of the page. Like the 'F1' clip, but it was really just film of dust being kicked which then obscures tracks/footprints which I was after. Just to give me that "Aahh, OK' moment really.

PS. Do you have to reach a certain orbit distance before you can edit posts - not seeing any option at the moment? Spotted at least two dopey typos in my post, that'll teach me to not proof read more thoroughly on my phone. (I've/over and tie/time)

[mako88sb]

Thanks for that. Coincidentally I had been to that very page about fifteen minutes before posting, but had a bit of a phone fail, getting to that first big set of ads and thinking it was the bottom of the page. Like the 'F1' clip, but it was really just film of dust being kicked which then obscures tracks/footprints which I was after. Just to give me that "Aahh, OK' moment really.

PS. Do you have to reach a certain orbit distance before you can edit posts - not seeing any option at the moment? Spotted at least two dopey typos in my post, that'll teach me to not proof read more thoroughly on my phone. (I've/over and tie/time)

Yeah, I'm not sure if such a thing exists but somebody else here might know better. As for your other question, there may well be a restriction in place for editing posts but I don't know the details. I know they removed the ability for forum members to delete their own posts after some hoax believers erased evidence of theirs that was not favorable to them. Could be the same sort of thing for post editing but I'm sure somebody better informed then me will chime in.

[godscountry]

A good film[documentary] to watch is [ For All Mankind ]. I would  try to acquire the DVD and watch it on your TV, it has some excellent scenes of the rover in action.You also have to remember,the rover only weighed around 70 lbs on the moon,if you split that weight over four axles, the per axle weight is very low  [being dispersed over x amount of area of a screened tire accounts for some of lighter thread marks.

[godscountry]

Thanks for that. Coincidentally I had been to that very page about fifteen minutes before posting, but had a bit of a phone fail, getting to that first big set of ads and thinking it was the bottom of the page. Like the 'F1' clip, but it was really just film of dust being kicked which then obscures tracks/footprints which I was after. Just to give me that "Aahh, OK' moment really.

PS. Do you have to reach a certain orbit distance before you can edit posts - not seeing any option at the moment? Spotted at least two dopey typos in my post, that'll teach me to not proof read more thoroughly on my phone. (I've/over and tie/time)

God forbid you forget to proof read and edit a post.I did and they were quick to let me know about it.We all make mistakes,its part of being human.LOL

Yeah, I'm not sure if such a thing exists but somebody else here might know better. As for your other question, there may well be a restriction in place for editing posts but I don't know the details. I know they removed the ability for forum members to delete their own posts after some hoax believers erased evidence of theirs that was not favorable to them. Could be the same sort of thing for post editing but I'm sure somebody better informed then me will chime in.

[Count Zero]

Hi all, first post on here and actually going to ask almost exactly the same question I first started looking on this site for. It is purely for a sense of confirmation really, but is there any film that actually shows dust being kicked and thereby obscuring the rover tracks?

Welcome LC!  The problem with your specific request is that in nearly all of the video footage of the rover, the camera is mounted on said rover, near the front.  From this position, it cannot see the tire tracks that are either under the rover or those that were left behind it.  You might find a station where they did a U-turn when they parked on arrival and see if you can see the tracks nearby.

The thing is, the tracks left by the mesh tires of the LRV can be difficult to see unless the lighting and camera angles are right.  On the other hand, the bootprints are pretty clear, and the dust that is kicked around as the astronauts shuffle, lope, skip and sashay around (because walking as we do on Earth is difficult and impractical in 1/6th gee) is really obvious in the videos.  In low-gravity & vacuum, the fine dust gets kicked-up in large quantities and flies surprisingly far, but it does not billow or get suspended the way it does in an atmosphere.

Seeing this behavior, it's not hard to see just how easily the shallow rover tracks can be obscured.

Hope this helps!

[BertieSlack]

You might find a station where they did a U-turn when they parked on arrival and see if you can see the tracks nearby. The thing is, the tracks left by the mesh tires of the LRV can be difficult to see unless the lighting and camera angles are right.

Here are a couple of TV pans from Apollo 16 which show this effect:

[Count Zero]

Here are a couple of TV pans from Apollo 16 which show this effect:

Wow!  You can really see where the tires dug in when it turned.  That's consistent with a lot of the LRV tracks imaged by LROC.  Zoom in on the NAC image at the bottom of this page.  In general, you can see that the foot-trails are more distinct than the tire-tracks.  If you follow the path up to North Ray Crater (at the top of the image), you can occasionally see the tracks, and they almost always show a turn.

[mako88sb]

You might find a station where they did a U-turn when they parked on arrival and see if you can see the tracks nearby. The thing is, the tracks left by the mesh tires of the LRV can be difficult to see unless the lighting and camera angles are right.

Here are a couple of TV pans from Apollo 16 which show this effect:

That's a great clip. Thanks for sharing. Interesting to hear the mission control chatter in the background as they discuss the 10 min extension. It does kind of interfere with what Young and Duke are talking about from roughly the 5:10 to 5:30 marks. I can't figure what it is that got Young to comment about it to Duke. Here's what I can make out:

Young: Look at that Charlie.

Duke: What? I don't see. What? What? What?

Duke: What?

Young: Somebody up there likes us.

->....... can't make out enough to figure out what they are talking about.....<-

Young: That is amazing.

Duke: Yes.

My ears aren't the greatest when it comes to making sense of what people say over radios or transmissions like this. Dou you know what was being discussed there?

[BertieSlack]

That's a great clip. Thanks for sharing. Interesting to hear the mission control chatter in the background as they discuss the 10 min extension. It does kind of interfere with what Young and Duke are talking about from roughly the 5:10 to 5:30 marks........do you know what was being discussed there?

According to ALSJ, on the drive to Station 10 one of Young's sample bags dropped from the stowage on his PLSS but it got wedged between the rover chassis and the fender, so they didn't lose it - hence "somebody up there likes us."

From the mission transcript as recorded at ALSJ:

148:59:16 Young: Look at that, Charlie.

148:59:17 Duke: What? I don't see. What? What? (Pause) What?

148:59:23 Young: Somebody up there likes us. That bag number 4, see where it is?

148:59:29 Duke: Came off, huh?

148:59:30 Young: Came off, (incredulous) and it's hanging between the fender and the frame.

148:59:36 Duke: That is amazing.

[mako88sb]

............That bag number 4, see where it is?

148:59:29 Duke: Came off, huh?

148:59:30 Young: Came off, (incredulous) and it's hanging between the fender and the frame.

Great! Thanks for that. I was hearing "number 4" no problem but now that I can read what the rest was being said, I understand the res. I doubt I would of ever figured it out no matter how many times I heard it.

[Willoughby]

There may be film of what you are looking for, or there may not be.  I don't understand why it would be bothersome.  There are obviously many photographs of visible tracks, and there are reasonable explanations to the absence of tracks in some photos.  I have a problem with those that find the images that do not show clear tracks as anomalies.  What is the anomaly?  In fact, if it is an indication that the mission was faked, how is it an indication?  Clearly, the rover makes tracks.  Clearly the rover can operate under its own power, so even in a faked mission, the rover should make tracks.  The explanations for the absence of tracks in some photos would be exactly the same in either scenarion unless they arbitrarily decided to use a crane for no reason on a set to move the rover into different positions.  In other words, this is one of those things that - if it doesn't make sense to you - shouldn't make sense even within the context of a faked mission either.

Suppose the mission was faked.  Take that stance.  Now, explain the lack of rover tracks from a rover that clearly works and makes tracks in some of the photos.  Why the lack of tracks in other photos?  You will have an equally hard time explaining even within thr context of a staged landing if you are honestly objective.  Because of this, the lack of clear tracks in some photos is not indicative of ANYTHING. 

[ka9q]

Because of this, the lack of clear tracks in some photos is not indicative of ANYTHING.

Actually, it indicates a lot:

Lunar surface dust varies in thickness, as would be expected given the extreme age of the lunar surface and the random impacts of objects large enough to dig craters and expose fresh surfaces.

Its optical properties are rather unusual, also as would be expected given the lack of water and an atmosphere and the steady "rain" of high velocity micrometeoroids.

Lunar gravity is a lot lower than earth's.

[Lenticular Cloud]

Thanks to all who posted, especially the panorama shots! Never seen them before.

Willoughby, it is not a problem for me. I understand the reasoning behind tracks not being visible, but it is a 'would be nice to have' thing for me, to actually see a clearly defined footprint/track being obscured by regolith being kicked. I will not lose any sleep over it, and it certainly does not make me doubt in any way that it happened. It is much like seeing film of, as an example, Obama's car grounding in Ireland a couple of years back. You hear about it, you visualise it, and then when you see the film it changes your perception of what happened (in that particular example it stopped a lot faster than I expected).

Nothing more.

ETA : Whoo, I have a modify button now