Apollo Discussions > The Hoax Theory

Saturn V Third Stage - Not enough room

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Jason Thompson:

--- Quote from: benparry on March 22, 2024, 08:30:34 AM ---Is there a website which literally adds up the bits within the Third stage that shows it does all fit
--- End quote ---

Not necessary given the massively flawed arguments.


--- Quote ---Phase 3 of the Saturn 5 rocket is 61.6 feet tall and 21.7 feet in diameter.
--- End quote ---

Height measured from where to where?


--- Quote ---If it was a cylinder (which it's not the top has a lander attached to it and it's much smaller and the diameter slowly decreases at the top)
--- End quote ---

That is incorporating both the Instrument Unit (IU) and the Spacecraft/LM Adapter (SLA), neither of which are part of the S-IVB.


--- Quote ---I used a cylinder calculator and came up with 22,781 cubic feet.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Remember it's already more than ½ full even if you just literally poured the fuel in the rocket.
--- End quote ---

Yes, that is literally how most rocket stages work. How much space does he imagine the lines and everything else take up when compared to the volume of fuel?


--- Quote ---We still need room for Insulation so now your available space is even smaller.
--- End quote ---

How thick does he expect the insulation to be? There are many unqualified assumptions being made in his comment that he needs to justify if he claims it supports his conclusions.


--- Quote ---Next subtract the cubic feet needed for the rocket's engines.
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Go on then? That, again, is his burden of proof. As well as showing that the rocket engine is included in the length of the stage he quotes.


--- Quote ---Don't forget the Lander itself.
We still need an oxygen supply, batteries, computers, and room for 3 Astronauts.
--- End quote ---

None of that was included in the S-IVB stage. The lander sits inside the SLA, and the command/service module sits on top of that. That's a fundamental error in his argument.

That and the fact there are many many diagrams available online that show how everything fitted. Not our burden to go and find the actual answers. His argument fails for being incomplete and making several errors about what needs to be included.

benparry:
Many thanks Gents for you're answers. As usual the answer is deceptively simple.

cjameshuff:

--- Quote from: Jason Thompson on March 25, 2024, 10:50:47 AM ---Yes, that is literally how most rocket stages work. How much space does he imagine the lines and everything else take up when compared to the volume of fuel?
--- End quote ---

Reminds me of some of the loudmouths saying that Starship was nothing more than a mockup because "it's just a hollow shell". These people seem to get their ideas of what "real spacecraft" are like from Star Wars, like they're supposed to be full of random bits of machinery and some little fuel tanks stuffed in some corner.

Dalhousie:

--- Quote from: cjameshuff on March 30, 2024, 01:32:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jason Thompson on March 25, 2024, 10:50:47 AM ---Yes, that is literally how most rocket stages work. How much space does he imagine the lines and everything else take up when compared to the volume of fuel?
--- End quote ---

Reminds me of some of the loudmouths saying that Starship was nothing more than a mockup because "it's just a hollow shell". These people seem to get their ideas of what "real spacecraft" are like from Star Wars, like they're supposed to be full of random bits of machinery and some little fuel tanks stuffed in some corner.

--- End quote ---

The first one unveiled was little more than that, a tarted up test article for pressurisation tests

Peter B:

--- Quote from: cjameshuff on March 30, 2024, 01:32:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jason Thompson on March 25, 2024, 10:50:47 AM ---Yes, that is literally how most rocket stages work. How much space does he imagine the lines and everything else take up when compared to the volume of fuel?
--- End quote ---

Reminds me of some of the loudmouths saying that Starship was nothing more than a mockup because "it's just a hollow shell". These people seem to get their ideas of what "real spacecraft" are like from Star Wars, like they're supposed to be full of random bits of machinery and some little fuel tanks stuffed in some corner.

--- End quote ---

Speaking of hollow shells, and veering back to the S-IVB, I'm reminded of when I first read about the wet workshop concept for Skylab. The idea of setting up a space station in a used fuel tank in the third stage seemed crazy to me. I kept thinking of the place reeking of petrol/gasoline fumes...until I realised (a) it was a hydrogen tank, and (b) they'd vent it anyway before filling it with oxygen.

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