Apollo Discussions > The Hoax Theory
Conclusive Proof the Moon Landings were Faked
bknight:
I had forgotten that one. Thanks for refreshing the story.
smartcooky:
--- Quote from: bknight on November 29, 2024, 06:25:45 AM ---I had forgotten that one. Thanks for refreshing the story.
--- End quote ---
There are others too.
Professor Heinz Kaminski recorded Apollo 11 transmissions at Bochum Observatory in Germany. Again, the transmissions he received and recorded had no CAPCOM transmissions, and no quindar tones.
https://honeysucklecreek.net/other_stations/bochum/main.html
And of course, the famous occasion when British scientist Sir Bernard Lovell and his team used the Jodrell Bank Radio Telescope as a radar to track the Lunar Module on its decent to Tranquility (as well as the Soviet Luna 15 probe that was operating near the moon at the same time). They were even able to detect when Neil Armstrong took control of the LM and started to translate across the Lunar surface to look for a safer landing site.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-49001181
All this is further proof of the reality of the Moon landings... and as a bonus, the three of them together prove the earth is not flat!!
najak:
--- Quote from: smartcooky on November 29, 2024, 02:06:15 PM ---Professor Heinz Kaminski recorded Apollo 11 transmissions at Bochum Observatory in Germany. Again, the transmissions he received and recorded had no CAPCOM transmissions, and no quindar tones.
https://honeysucklecreek.net/other_stations/bochum/main.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-49001181
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the 3 references. I hadn't see the 1st one about Larry Baysinger (although I had seen other articles, but just not one as good as this one).
Those are the BIG three.. Are there more?
From a MLH perspective, I reconcile these as following:
1. Baysinger - spent a lot of money/time on this. Could he and his one friend be lying? (Otherwise, they wasted all that time/money; or they could fib and be famous)
Where is his recording? I've seen/heard NOTHING about this... seems like that would be pretty VITAL -- as the ONLY amateur recording in history to capture this.
Did he do it again a few months later for Apollo 12? 14, 15, 16, 17?
I hear about NO OTHER amateurs ever doing this.
2. Bochum - all we have left here is 67 second MP3. What else is there? How many witnesses? Any other testimonies? Or just one guy?.... Anymore more than an MP3 which simply plays the same track that was also broadcast.. I'm not sure how to tell that "this is verifiable fact".
3. Jodrelll -- same questions. What proof still exists? Who are the witnesses? All I've seen from them is a "altitude line graph" - without knowing "how did they actually track their landing from their earth dish that was a lot smaller than what we see now.
All 3 sources have gains for these claims - fame, good for tourism or funding.. Jodrell got LOTS of funding after this... Follow the money?
===
LASTLY, and maybe most importantly.... I am not trying to prove we didn't orbit the moon -- ONLY that we didn't land humans on the moon.
The moon itself is only 0.4 arc angle field-of-view from earth. Our technology back then wasn't so precise that we could tell a difference of 0.2 deg tolerance (likely).
So there exist a few other options, to transmit from the Lunar orbit (70 minutes Line-of-Site, per 2 hr orbit).
Rumor has it that the Russians played a joke on Nixon by sending some fake transmissions from their own lunar satellite, using it as a relay - to say that they landed on the moon. Have you heard this rumor? (is it true, or just made up?)
Anyhow - I'm a rookie, filliing in gaps of info as I go. But what I've presented is my current understanding of this situation and evidence.
Zakalwe:
--- Quote from: najak on November 30, 2024, 06:55:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: smartcooky on November 29, 2024, 02:06:15 PM ---Professor Heinz Kaminski recorded Apollo 11 transmissions at Bochum Observatory in Germany. Again, the transmissions he received and recorded had no CAPCOM transmissions, and no quindar tones.
https://honeysucklecreek.net/other_stations/bochum/main.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-49001181
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the 3 references. I hadn't see the 1st one about Larry Baysinger (although I had seen other articles, but just not one as good as this one).
Those are the BIG three.. Are there more?
From a MLH perspective, I reconcile these as following:
1. Baysinger - spent a lot of money/time on this. Could he and his one friend be lying? (Otherwise, they wasted all that time/money; or they could fib and be famous)
Where is his recording? I've seen/heard NOTHING about this... seems like that would be pretty VITAL -- as the ONLY amateur recording in history to capture this.
Did he do it again a few months later for Apollo 12? 14, 15, 16, 17?
I hear about NO OTHER amateurs ever doing this.
2. Bochum - all we have left here is 67 second MP3. What else is there? How many witnesses? Any other testimonies? Or just one guy?.... Anymore more than an MP3 which simply plays the same track that was also broadcast.. I'm not sure how to tell that "this is verifiable fact".
3. Jodrelll -- same questions. What proof still exists? Who are the witnesses? All I've seen from them is a "altitude line graph" - without knowing "how did they actually track their landing from their earth dish that was a lot smaller than what we see now.
All 3 sources have gains for these claims - fame, good for tourism or funding.. Jodrell got LOTS of funding after this... Follow the money?
--- End quote ---
Standard conspiracist thinking at work.
It is not enough to imagine that something could happen- you have to show that it did happen. And if you can show that it did, your workings have to overcome the other vast mounds of independently verified corroborating evidence.
You place standards of proof on theirs that you happily hand-wave away when it doesn't confirm with your internal belief system. No mind so closed as those who do not want to learn.
I bet that you have never heard of Christopher Taylor? He observed the fuel dump from the Apollo 8 booster from a backyard in the UK
I bet you also have never heard of Commander Henry Hatfield either. He, along with a number of other UK amateur astronomers not only observed the same dump, but actually photographed it.
https://pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html
Just goes to show how ridiculous claims of a conspiracy are. It would be easier to go to the Moon that to plant all of these pieces on independent evidence all over the world.
najak:
--- Quote from: Zakalwe on November 30, 2024, 07:35:15 AM ---It is not enough to imagine that something could happen- you have to show that it did happen. And if you can show that it did, your workings have to overcome the other vast mounds of independently verified corroborating evidence.
--- End quote ---
My approach is to show "what could NOT have happened." If I prove enough IMPOSSIBILITIES - even the Mighty Apollo cannot Break Physics. Once you show Physics being broken, it compels the physicists to open their minds to the likelihood that what they previously believed, may simply not be true.
--- Quote ---I bet that you have never heard of Christopher Taylor? He observed the fuel dump from the Apollo 8 booster from a backyard in the UK
I bet you also have never heard of Commander Henry Hatfield either. He, along with a number of other UK amateur astronomers not only observed the same dump, but actually photographed it.
https://pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html
--- End quote ---
I think you misunderstand my MLH theory -- I simply say "we didn't LAND humans on the moon".
So sure -- we saw fuel dumps. At minimum, we made it into LOE -- and here again, there will be fuel dumps, no?
And does that video seem like a "good argument against MLH" really? This is a strawman approach - pretending MLH is something that it's not.
Most believe the real decision to fake it, occurred in 1967, after Apollo 1, but also that these preparations/considerations as Plan B, had started earlier.
Like any good Military plan, there's always multiple COA's -- in 1967 "Plan B" went into effect.... a year later Webb and Seamans both resigned -- didn't want to be a part of it.
Nearly all 400,000 people working on NASA were doing "good work" - but the LEM was simply not "capable of landing humans on the surface", and even harder -- "ascending back into a perfectly aligned and timed orbit at 3000 mph 60 miles high - 1st try every time".
So they had to fake this Landing part... minimum.
===
And that video talks about "the biggest cost being SaturnV" -- there's a strong theory that the SaturnV was NOT CAPABLE of launching a 110,000 lb payload to leave Earth's orbit. I may delve into this issue in the future.
The biggest smoking gun I know of now is that SpaceX's SLS rocket has more total power than the SaturnV by a lot - but is still only rated at 59,000 lbs for leaving earth's orbit... about HALF.
I haven't gotten more into this yet -- but what I've seen so far, doesn't bode too well, even for leaving LOE. More on that later...
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