Author Topic: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.  (Read 476229 times)

Offline gillianren

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #690 on: September 01, 2015, 12:28:00 PM »
OR shown that document X actually exists, just jump right over it as it never happened and start right over again.

Indeed.  Everything Neil demands for the Holocaust has already been shown, too, and he's wrong there, of course.  I'd also like to point out that it isn't just the 6 million Jews who died, either; estimates include about 6.5 million gentiles of various types--Gypsies, homosexuals, Communists, and so forth--who were also killed in the camps.  Probably including some of my own relatives, though tracing that branch of the family has proved difficult.
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Offline ka9q

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #691 on: September 01, 2015, 01:25:24 PM »
The last thing I read on this site last night was someone telling me that testing a spacesuit with an astronaut in it was immoral.
Neil, a very simple question:

What law(s) of physics would the Apollo PLSS sublimator violate?

If none, why do you doubt its operation?

Offline mako88sb

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #692 on: September 01, 2015, 01:30:58 PM »
The last thing I read on this site last night was someone telling me that testing a spacesuit with an astronaut in it was immoral.
Neil, a very simple question:

What law(s) of physics would the Apollo PLSS sublimator violate?

If none, why do you doubt its operation?

He's been asked that numerous times at the discussion area of the Michio Kaku video. As far as I know, he's never responded. How about now Neil?

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #693 on: September 01, 2015, 01:40:54 PM »
The last thing I read on this site last night was someone telling me that testing a spacesuit with an astronaut in it was immoral.
Neil, a very simple question:

What law(s) of physics would the Apollo PLSS sublimator violate?

If none, why do you doubt its operation?

He's been asked that numerous times at the discussion area of the Michio Kaku video. As far as I know, he's never responded. How about now Neil?
He is rather like an owl, the more light you shine on him the less he sees.
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Offline Ishkabibble

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #694 on: September 01, 2015, 02:00:55 PM »
I think there ought to be a rule put in place for every HB, CT, and AA who posts on this forum.

"You will answer all questions put to you by the members, or your posting privileges will be moderated, and you will be given a written reminder of the pending question, until you do."

Think that can be fitted into the ToS ?
You don't "believe" that the lunar landings happened. You either understand the science or you don't.

If the lessons of history teach us any one thing, it is that no one learns the lessons that history teaches...

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #695 on: September 01, 2015, 02:57:32 PM »
I think the forum runs fine, Baker is having rings run around him and the longer this goes on the more holes he digs and the less consistent his protests become. People can point to this as a record of incompetence that pervades conspiracism.

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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #696 on: September 01, 2015, 03:53:46 PM »
...the more holes [Baker] digs and the less consistent his protests become.

And the more foaming.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #697 on: September 01, 2015, 03:53:58 PM »
I think there ought to be a rule put in place for every HB, CT, and AA who posts on this forum.

"You will answer all questions put to you by the members, or your posting privileges will be moderated, and you will be given a written reminder of the pending question, until you do."

Think that can be fitted into the ToS ?

Assuming that Baker doesn't leave due to his being continually made a public fool of and seeing his every pathetic argument torn to shreds, then at some point LO will put him on "watched" status, which allows him to monitor Baker's posts more easily, while putting him on notice that his posts are being checked.

If Baker still refuses to answer questions put to him, then LO will put him on "moderation", and that means LO will have to personally approve every post Baker makes before it gets displayed. This generally means no new claims will be allowed until he has answered the previous questions.

Once this point is reached, most hoax nut jobs flounce because their argument methodology (constantly dodging questions while hand-waving away the evidence and arguments against them) can no longer work.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 03:57:01 PM by smartcooky »
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #698 on: September 01, 2015, 04:05:41 PM »
Smartcooky is right. LO  has always been slow with sanctions providing decency is kept, and that is not a criticism. It's actually a compliment. Take a look at the awe130 thread. If you ever want to see an assemblage of nonsense that was left to pan out into rabid self-destruction because LO gave a CT enough rope, then that's the thread to study.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Neil Baker

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #699 on: September 01, 2015, 04:08:27 PM »
Neil, a very simple question:

What law(s) of physics would the Apollo PLSS sublimator violate?

If none, why do you doubt its operation?

I've answered this question already but I'm happy to answer again.
None.
I doubt it's operation because when in 2007 I asked myself the question, "How can we prove we went to the moon?", I stumbled upon the spacesuit cooling system. I discovered that they allegedly cooled the suits using ice sublimators. Initially, I was amazed and fascinated. But then I sought more information, specs, procedures, photos, video and although I found some stuff like a patent, line drawings and some elementary information sent to me by the alleged manufacturer Hamilton Sunstrand, little of the abundance of information expected could be found by me. No photo (although there's one now) and still there's absurdly only one. And most absurdly, no video. Plus, calls to NASA and Hamilton Sunstrand resulted in no additional information despite promises made by NASA to do so. I also failed to find any academic-level book mentioning them but have since after a better search identified one published in 1993 that does.

Now, it's revealed in the technical information about sublimators shared on this thread that only sublimators and not manned spacesuits are placed in vacuum chambers during their test. This has led to the discussion and speculation about whether any manned spacesuit is ever brought under high vacuum prior to actual ISS EVA. I argue that it's preposterous to expect an astronaut to wait until they're at the ISS before experiencing high vacuum in a spacesuit and many of the Antagonists on the site argue that it would be "immoral" to do so because it would unnecessarily jeopardize the lives of the astronauts.

My response is that if it's immoral to practice wearing the suit in high vacuum on Earth in a vacuum chamber, it's even more immoral during an ISS EVA where nothing of vital importance is being performed. Better to deconstruct or deflate a basically worse than worthless liability than it is to risk a single life performing experiments of highly questionable value. (There I go kicking the hornets nest again)
Plus it's just absolutely absurd to think that NASA would have so little confidence in their spacesuits that they wouldn't allow astronauts to use them in high vacuum chambers but would allow them to be used on an ISS EVA.

I'll admit that this whole "immoral" argument has taken me by surprise. For a while during this debate, I metaphorically felt like I was on the ropes being pummeled. But then all of the sudden my opposition, in a surreal fashion, backed off to the center of the ring and started pummeling themselves bloody with a laughable argument. And on top of it, even if you believe NASA tested the sublimators in a vacuum chamber attached to a man wearing a spacesuit outside the vacuum chamber running on a treadmill, where's the video? Where's the photo?

One person argues that video recording is too expensive and although that may have once been true it certainly isn't true now. I probably have one of the cheapest cellphones on the market and it takes great photos and video.

And why are we having this debate? Fundamentally, it's because NASA refuses to be accountable. As a government agency making certain claims of achievement to taxpayers that fund them, there is nothing inappropriate about asking questions and receiving answers, requesting video and getting video, and most of all allowing independent witnesses to observe spacesuit with ice sublimator testing or training in a high vacuum chamber on Earth duplicating environmental conditions of orbit.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 04:13:47 PM by Neil Baker »

Offline Neil Baker

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #700 on: September 01, 2015, 04:09:43 PM »
OR shown that document X actually exists, just jump right over it as it never happened and start right over again.

Indeed.  Everything Neil demands for the Holocaust has already been shown, too, and he's wrong there, of course.  I'd also like to point out that it isn't just the 6 million Jews who died, either; estimates include about 6.5 million gentiles of various types--Gypsies, homosexuals, Communists, and so forth--who were also killed in the camps.  Probably including some of my own relatives, though tracing that branch of the family has proved difficult.

Is it just me who's not allowed to talk about the holocaust or should everyone be threatened about it?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 04:14:41 PM by Neil Baker »

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #701 on: September 01, 2015, 04:18:12 PM »
Your inability to find and understand material doesn't mean it isn't there to be found and readily understood by others.

You've had your misconceptions corrected and explained repeatedly and very patiently.

NASA is accountable - you just don't want to accept what they've provided, even though every other engineer does.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 04:21:00 PM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #702 on: September 01, 2015, 04:19:04 PM »
OR shown that document X actually exists, just jump right over it as it never happened and start right over again.

Indeed.  Everything Neil demands for the Holocaust has already been shown, too, and he's wrong there, of course.  I'd also like to point out that it isn't just the 6 million Jews who died, either; estimates include about 6.5 million gentiles of various types--Gypsies, homosexuals, Communists, and so forth--who were also killed in the camps.  Probably including some of my own relatives, though tracing that branch of the family has proved difficult.

Is it just me who's not allowed to talk about the holocaust or should everyone be threatened about it?

Holocaust denial is abhorrent and not allowed here.  That's the rule for everyone, and you weren't threatened.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #703 on: September 01, 2015, 04:20:36 PM »
Neil, a very simple question:

What law(s) of physics would the Apollo PLSS sublimator violate?

If none, why do you doubt its operation?

I've answered this question already but I'm happy to answer again.
None.
I doubt it's operation because when in 2007 I asked myself the question, "How can we prove we went to the moon?", I stumbled upon the spacesuit cooling system. I discovered that they allegedly cooled the suits using ice sublimators. Initially, I was amazed and fascinated. But then I sought more information, specs, procedures, photos, video and although I found some stuff like a patent, line drawings and some elementary information sent to me by the alleged manufacturer Hamilton Sunstrand, little of the abundance of information expected could be found by me. No photo (although there's one now) and still there's absurdly only one. And most absurdly, no video. Plus, calls to NASA and Hamilton Sunstrand resulted in no additional information despite promises made by NASA to do so. I also failed to find any academic-level book mentioning them but have since after a better search identified one published in 1993 that does.
You're inability to do even minor research has been proven many times in this thread.
Quote

Now, it's revealed in the technical information about sublimators shared on this thread that only sublimators and not manned spacesuits are placed in vacuum chambers during their test. This has led to the discussion and speculation about whether any manned spacesuit is ever brought under high vacuum prior to actual ISS EVA. I argue that it's preposterous to expect an astronaut to wait until they're at the ISS before experiencing high vacuum in a spacesuit and many of the Antagonists on the site argue that it would be "immoral" to do so because it would unnecessarily jeopardize the lives of the astronauts.
What is preposterous is your inability to recognize the fact that they have been used on a routine basis for the last +40 years.
Quote

My response is that if it's immoral to practice wearing the suit in high vacuum on Earth in a vacuum chamber, it's even more immoral during an ISS EVA where nothing of vital importance is being performed. Better to deconstruct or deflate a basically worse than worthless liability than it is to risk a single life performing experiments of highly questionable value. (There I go kicking the hornets nest again)
Plus it's just absolutely absurd to think that NASA would have so little confidence in their spacesuits that they wouldn't allow astronauts to use them in high vacuum chambers but would allow them to be used on an ISS EVA.
Why would NASA waste part of its budget on a device that has been proven to work?
Quote

I'll admit that this whole "immoral" argument has taken me by surprise. For a while during this debate, I metaphorically felt like I was on the ropes being pummeled. But then all of the sudden my opposition, in a surreal fashion, backed off to the center of the ring and started pummeling themselves bloody with a laughable argument. And on top of it, even if you believe NASA tested the sublimators in a vacuum chamber attached to a man wearing a spacesuit outside the vacuum chamber running on a treadmill, where's the video? Where's the photo.
Your are the one stumbling on the ropes because of the consent pressure by the members ridiculing your adolescent requests.
Quote

One person argues that video recording is too expensive and although that may have once been true it certainly isn't true now. I probably have one of the cheapest cellphones on the market and it takes great photos and video.
Again you obviously don't read responses, Jay gave a very good dissertation that the test would not be cheap nor easy since it would require a complete test schedule.
Quote

And why are we having this debate. Fundamentally, it's because NASA refuses to be accountable. As a government agency making certain claims of achievement to taxpayers that fund them, there is nothing inappropriate about asking questions and receiving answers, requesting video and getting video, and most of all allowing independent witnesses to observe spacesuit with ice sublimator testing or training in a high vacuum chamber on Earth duplicating environmental conditions of orbit.
NASA is accountable every time an astronaut goes outside a habitable atmosphere into the vacuum of space, why can't you see that?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Allan F

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #704 on: September 01, 2015, 04:34:18 PM »
Most of your arguments are of the form "If I ran the zoo, there would be tigercamels and kangaroolions and ostrichcats". Basically, your ideas about "how things should be done" are simplistic, juvinile and has no relation to the real world.

Mass-produced things with a RECORD OF WORKING aren't tested full-up - just like airbags in cars aren't tested by ramming the car into a wall with a live human on board, and then sold.

Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.