Author Topic: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots  (Read 440705 times)

Offline ka9q

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #150 on: April 22, 2012, 03:57:01 AM »
Tell me profmunkin, do you really think it was totally impossible for someone to bring a rifle to work and shoot a victim riding slowly by in an open automobile at a range of less than 100 yards?

The victim was the most politically powerful, famous and instantly recognizable man on the planet. He was accompanied by the most famous and instantly recognizable woman on the planet: his wife.

The shooter, an ex-Marine marksman, owned and frequently practiced with the rifle later found at the site and conclusively linked to the murder.

The shooter, with a history of mental instability, political extremism and irresponsible acts including spousal abuse, had purchased the rifle under an alias earlier that year and used it almost immediately in a carefully planned attempt to murder another (not nearly as) politically famous person.

The shooter, given several days public notice of the victim's planned route, changed his routine significantly in obvious preparation.

The shooter had several hours alone in which to prepare a sniper's nest, assemble his rifle, and wait in what turned out to be an ideal location.

The victim was openly fond of public motorcades and had taken many in the past, often in built-up urban areas passing hundreds of buildings and thousands of windows, far too many to screen in advance.

Not only had those responsible for protecting the victim long been concerned about what became the exact scenario of the murder but the victim himself often recognized the risk, even that very morning. Despite repeated serious expressions of concern for his safety, the victim was philosophical, repeatedly instructing them to stay back and not impair the public's view. Since he was their boss, they could not overrule him.

Immediately after becoming a murderer, the shooter abandoned his weapon, left his place of work, went home, changed his clothes, picked up a revolver, and left again. A few minutes later, when he was stopped and questioned by a police officer, without provocation he emptied his revolver into the police officer and ran away, reloading, before perhaps a dozen witnesses.

He again attempted to shoot the policemen who finally apprehended him.

Yes, it's unsettling to think that a loser like Lee Harvey Oswald could bring down the most powerful and famous person in the world with such seeming ease. Yet, as I said, this was the exact scenario that the Secret Service had long feared, including the nature of the perpetrator as a loner extremely unlikely to conspire with or confide his plans in anyone who could inform on him. It may sound cold, but in retrospect the only really surprising thing about the JFK assassination is that it hadn't happened sooner. (A plot to kill JFK as President-elect using explosives had been thwarted almost by luck.) Fortunately, most people given the opportunity to see an American president in person don't try to kill him even if they strongly disagree with his politics.

As the saying goes, truth is often stranger than fiction. That's because fiction has to make sense; it has to seem plausible, while the truth only needs to be true. And the truth of the case against Oswald for double murder (and the attempted murder of Connally) has been established so far beyond any reasonable doubt as to be one of the few criminal cases in history that approaches proof beyond any doubt whatsoever.


« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 04:14:48 AM by ka9q »

Offline Echnaton

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #151 on: April 22, 2012, 08:25:19 AM »
Bowers said he was cut off by the commission, "I was there to only to tell them just what they asked"
"When they wanted to cut off the conversation, as far as I was concerned that was the end of that"

Equivocation.  The phrase "cut off" is used two ways here.  You use it to say the conversation was stopped before Bowers was finished, while in the quote Bowers is saying the conversation stopped because it was finished.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #152 on: April 22, 2012, 10:18:21 AM »
The shooter, an ex-Marine marksman, owned and frequently practiced with the rifle later found at the site and conclusively linked to the murder.


Marine Marksman - this is the lowest level given to just pass on the rifle range.
Sergeant Nelson Delgado - sherved with Oswald, said Oswald was a terrible shot, so much so he was seen to often miss the target entirely, called "a maggie drawers".

Marksman ... Sharpshooter ... Expert

Note; Oswald just qualified as Sharpshooter
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 10:50:36 AM by profmunkin »

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #153 on: April 22, 2012, 10:49:11 AM »
Is it true that the WC had 3 experts try to duplicate the three shots and failed to do so?

more interviews http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/griffith/Oswald_poor_shot.html
"In addition to Sherman Cooley, Henry Hurt interviewed over fifty other former Marine colleagues of Oswald's. Hurt reported the results of those interviews:

On the subject of Oswald's shooting ability, there was virtually no exception to Delgado's opinion that it was laughable. . . .

Many of the Marines mentioned that Oswald had a certain lack of coordination that, they felt, was responsible for the fact that he had difficulty learning to shoot."

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #154 on: April 22, 2012, 10:55:28 AM »

Equivocation.  The phrase "cut off" is used two ways here.  You use it to say the conversation was stopped before Bowers was finished, while in the quote Bowers is saying the conversation stopped because it was finished.

Lee Bowers interview

See for yourself

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #155 on: April 22, 2012, 11:06:47 AM »
Despite repeated serious expressions of concern for his safety, the victim was philosophical, repeatedly instructing them to stay back and not impair the public's view. Since he was their boss, they could not overrule him.


If you listen to only WC or the likes of Vincent Bugliosi you will never learn the truth.
JFK ever restricting the SS was a lie created as a deception to hide the failure of the SS to shield the President in Dealey Plaza.

http://vincepalamara.blogspot.com/2009/12/jfk-secret-service_26.html
Special Agent In Charge (SAIC) of White House Detail (WHD) Gerald A. “Jerry” Behn:

"I don't remember Kennedy ever saying that he didn't want anybody on the back of his car."

Assistant Special Agent In Charge (ASAIC) Floyd M. Boring:

No, no, no-that's not true...[JFK] was a very easy-going guy...he didn't interfere with our actions at all."

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #156 on: April 22, 2012, 11:43:21 AM »
Immediately after becoming a murderer, the shooter abandoned his weapon, left his place of work, went home, changed his clothes, picked up a revolver, and left again. A few minutes later, when he was stopped and questioned by a police officer, without provocation he emptied his revolver into the police officer and ran away, reloading, before perhaps a dozen witnesses.

Immediately?
No! Supposedly, while rushing to get off the 6th floor, Oswald took the time to meticulously wipe the rifle free of all prints.
The Dallas Police could not find a print on the rifle.
Rifle then given to the FBI, they could not find a print on the rifle.
FBI returned rifle to the Dallas Police, Dallas Police then, miraculously, found a palm print on the underside of the gun's barrel when the rifle was disassembled.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 12:18:49 PM by profmunkin »

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #157 on: April 22, 2012, 12:08:42 PM »
"Oswald" Rifle found without a clip?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm
"1985 book Reasonable Doubt, Henry Hurt intones:

Without a clip, the cartridges must be hand-loaded, one by one, making rapid shooting flatly impossible.
There is not a shred of positive evidence that such a clip was found with the Mannlicher-Carcano in the sniper's nest. (p. 103) "

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #158 on: April 22, 2012, 01:04:57 PM »
Continuing refusal to address the responses to your direct questions noted. Your 'let's keep throwing mud at the wall and see what sticks' approach is getting tiring to the point of not even being worth reading any more. If you want to discuss this, then for heaven's sake pick a couple of issues and stick with them rather than this scattergun approach that buries us all in crap.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #159 on: April 22, 2012, 01:27:48 PM »
Continuing refusal to address the responses to your direct questions noted. Your 'let's keep throwing mud at the wall and see what sticks' approach is getting tiring to the point of not even being worth reading any more. If you want to discuss this, then for heaven's sake pick a couple of issues and stick with them rather than this scattergun approach that buries us all in crap.

What issue do you want to stick with?

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #160 on: April 22, 2012, 01:55:20 PM »
Frankly I don't care, but go back and review my contributions to this thread and see if you could hazard a guess at which issues I might be interested in discussing. It's not that hard to work out, surely?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline gillianren

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #161 on: April 22, 2012, 01:58:20 PM »
Is it true that the WC had 3 experts try to duplicate the three shots and failed to do so?

No.
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Offline Chew

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #162 on: April 22, 2012, 02:26:56 PM »
"Oswald" Rifle found without a clip?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid6.htm
"1985 book Reasonable Doubt, Henry Hurt intones:

Without a clip, the cartridges must be hand-loaded, one by one, making rapid shooting flatly impossible.
There is not a shred of positive evidence that such a clip was found with the Mannlicher-Carcano in the sniper's nest. (p. 103) "


That link has a picture of the rifle with the clip clearly visible!!!

Offline gillianren

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #163 on: April 22, 2012, 02:31:42 PM »
That link has a picture of the rifle with the clip clearly visible!!!

And gives detail about how the clip was found.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Echnaton

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #164 on: April 22, 2012, 06:42:51 PM »
Continuing refusal to address the responses to your direct questions noted. Your 'let's keep throwing mud at the wall and see what sticks' approach is getting tiring to the point of not even being worth reading any more. If you want to discuss this, then for heaven's sake pick a couple of issues and stick with them rather than this scattergun approach that buries us all in crap.

What issue do you want to stick with?

I tell you what I would like for you to stick with.  The single issue you think most undermines the WC report.  State what your point is and stick with supporting it.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett