JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[profmunkin]

Well we have the Zapruder film, frames 312-313. It's pretty obvious where the exit wound was, isn't it?
[/quote]
FBI refused a copy of the z film "Zapruder film is not considered evidence" go figure.

Do some research Douglas P. Horne Inside the ARRB
or Doug Horne - dreamland 02_20_2010
AARB discovered that the chain of custody on Z film was broken by CIA
Z film delv to NPIC / CIA on Sat - thought to be altered and sent out for developing
second Z film delv on Sun from Kodak Hawkeye labs to NPIC / CIA -  this is the version we now have.

The Hollywood Group consisting of Sydney Wilkinson and her husband and others are examining the z film purchased directly from the national achieve, from a special effects experts perspective.
There is no doubt that the film has had special effects tampering.

So no you don't have the z film to rely on, unless the ARRB and The Hollywood Group is also a part of the conspiracy.

a few conclusions by The Hollywood Group, conclusions from 7 out of 7 experts say
> head wounds are not only altered, they are poorly altered
> blood spray effect was not done well
> blood spray dissipated too rapidly
> painted on wound on right front of head
> exit wound in the right rear portion of JFK's head can still be detected.

from Doug Horne - Film does not show
< exit debris known to be thrown back and to the left
< limo not shown to slow or stop

So there you have it, believe it, or
I am sure not.

[Chew]

Once again in English?

[profmunkin]

If you mean the exact condition of the bullet hasn't been duplicated then no, it hasn't, because (like others have said) there are too many variables. Show me two wrecked cars with identical damage. You can't.

With all due respect, discussing the reality of CE399 feats further is nonsense

What does it matter if someone lines up 2 wounds?
The problem is as I have shown the bullet could not go from the location on the back as shown in the autopsy photo and exit higher from the neck.

[BazBear]

Prove me wrong by telling us where all of the shots came from, if not from the 6th floor of the School Book Depository.

Well, according to prof, bullets cannot exit a body once they enter. So, JFK was hit in the back, hit in the neck, hit in the back of the head, hit in the top right of the head, Connally was hit in the back just below the right armpit, hit in the chest just below the right nipple, hit on the top of the left wrist, hit on the bottom of the left wrist, and finally hit in the thigh, all by separate bullets. I count 9 separate shots. The bottom of the wrist shot obviously came from an assassin laying on the floor of the limo between Connally's legs. The thigh shot had to have come from a hovering helicopter directly above the limo.

No, that wasn't a helicopter overhead, it was an alien stealth scout ship.

That's what I "love" about a lot of JFK CTists. They claim CE399 did impossible things, but can never come up with an alternative that doesn't require all kinds of shooters in all sorts of implausible or impossible locations, firing what would almost have to be "magic' bullets.

[profmunkin]

Once again in English?

do i need to type slowly for you?

[Chew]

Once again in English?

do i need to type slowly for you?

No, you need to write in proper English capitalization, punctuation, and spelling.

[Chew]

Still waiting on your fragment weight calculation, btw. Cylinder 2mm diameter, 1 mm thick.

[LunarOrbit]

With all due respect, discussing the reality of CE399 feats further is nonsense

You say that because you have nothing of substance to say. The "pristine" bullet was not pristine. The "magic" bullet was not magic. The shot has been reproduced both in the real world and using CGI. Your entire argument boils down to "it couldn't happen like that because I don't want to believe it".

What does it matter if someone lines up 2 wounds?

It matters a lot. Forensic investigators do it all the time, so obviously it means something. But what we all want to know is where the shots came from, if not from the School Book Depository? Why do you keep avoiding that question? If it's so obviously that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the only gunman then you should have no problem pointing to where the other gunmen were. What are you waiting for?

The problem is as I have shown the bullet could not go from the location on the back as shown in the autopsy photo and exit higher from the neck.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat that you have proven something, just saying it doesn't make it true.

By the way, I've been meaning to ask for your opinion on something. What do you think of vindictive cowards who cry to service providers (like Proboards... just as a random example) in order to cover up their embarrassing failures? I'm just curious.

[profmunkin]

Still waiting on your fragment weight calculation, btw. Cylinder 2mm diameter, 1 mm thick.

Your correct, I was ignoring you
Yes with a length and a known material, I could do the calculations
Experts could give good estimates as the dimensions of the fragments, be simple to do the math.

Why not check out Nurse Bell and the troopers statements about the bullet taken from connally, I think I posted his name earlier.

[Chew]

Still waiting on your fragment weight calculation, btw. Cylinder 2mm diameter, 1 mm thick.

Your correct, I was ignoring you
Yes with a length and a known material, I could do the calculations

So do it.

Experts could give good estimates as the dimensions of the fragments,

Maybe a metrologist could, but a nurse? No, I doubt that. Maybe the number of fragments but not their size, not 13 years after the event. And she couldn't remember if it was 4 or 5 fragments.

[profmunkin]

You say that because you have nothing of substance to say. The "pristine" bullet was not pristine. The "magic" bullet was not magic. The shot has been reproduced both in the real world and using CGI. Your entire argument boils down to "it couldn't happen like that because I don't want to believe it".

'pristine bullet' is not possible because no one has ever duplicated it or anything like it.

Can you show me any published papers on the possibility of a CE399 from qualified experts?
 

[ka9q]

What does it matter where the shots came from if you don't understand that the shot in the back has nothing to do with the shot in the throat.

We don't "understand" that because it's simply untrue. False. Erroneous. You're not understanding us because you don't want to.

If the wound in the throat has nothing to do with the wound in the back, then where did the two separate bullets go? Conspiracy nuts often ridicule "magic bullets", but it would seem that you have two of them yourself that simply vanished into JFK's body. Had they been in there, they would without question have shown up in the X-rays.

Even worse for you is the simple fact that this particular bullet, at the velocity it had, would not be stopped or even fragmented by passage through JFK's neck since it didn't hit any bone.

Still worse for you is the fact that Connally's entrance wound was oval, proving the bullet had yawed before entry, and rifle bullets simply don't yaw like that on their own at such short range. This proves that the bullet that hit Connally in the back had gone through something else first. That something else was JFK's neck; there are no other candidates. And when you draw a line through the wounds on the two men, guess where it goes?

And yet another seriously inconvenient fact for you that no bullet holes were found in the limo after a careful inspection with a fine-toothed comb. A crack was found in the windshield, having been made from the inside, but nothing made by a bullet with anything like a rifle's muzzle velocity.

This stuff is not a matter of opinion. It's physics and anatomy, repeatedly confirmed by both analysis and experiment. You do understand that the results of an experiment trump your intuitive guesses, do you not? That puts it squarely into the category of physical fact. You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

[gillianren]

No, you need to write in proper English capitalization, punctuation, and spelling.

Coherent sentences would be a plus as well.

[ka9q]

There is no doubt that the film has had special effects tampering.

Reading fiction again? Who in hell is the "Hollywood Group", and what expertise and credentials do they bring to the problem that hasn't already been provided time and again over nearly 50 years?

You don't even have the history of the Z film correct. That's what happens when you rot your mind with conspiracist garbage while refusing to even look at the actual facts and evidence.

Zapruder immedately put his camera, with exposed film inside, in his office safe while he sought to have it developed. It was Kodachrome II, so TV film departments couldn't process it. When they found a local commercial lab, the film was developed that very afternoon/evening. Immediately, in Zapruder's presence, three copies were made. Zapruder gave two to the Secret Service, not the CIA (always the CIA, huh?). Why the Secret Service? Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that their job is to protect the President of the United States, who had just been murdered.

The next day after selling the print rights to LIFE, he gave the original and the third copy to them.

So when, exactly, in this sequence of events did the "CIA" tamper with Zapruder's film? How did they do it? While it was sitting unprocessed in his safe, perhaps by telekinesis? Or did they go after the four copies after they had been disbursed to the Secret Service and LIFE, ensuring that all four were altered undetectably in exactly the same way? Having just paid a huge sum of money for the film of the century, something many other news organizations badly wanted too, do you really think LIFE magazine wouldn't take steps to protect it?

Oh, and should you (without any evidence, naturally) say the "CIA" simply pulled a fast switch, I might point out that the JFK assassination wasn't the only thing on that spool of film. One half had already been exposed with Zapruder's personal activities. He would presumably have noticed if they were somehow missing or modified from the processed film. How would the CIA have obtained this part of his film so it could be merged into the altered copy so that Zapruder wouldn't suspect anything?

I think you must live on another planet, where supposition is fine as long as it supports the conspiracy you want, but no amount of facts, logic, laws of physics and even common sense is enough when it refutes it.

[Chew]

I love when CTs anomaly hunt. They never follow the implications through to their logical conclusion. The implication that CE399 was planted is my favorite. So conspirators plant a "pristine" bullet without knowing who was hit where with what, how many bullets are still in the victims, the conditions of those bullets, how many bullets and/or fragments, if any, are in the limo, and they plant a bullet on a random stretcher in a hallway that could have just come down from the maternity ward.