Radiation

[timfinch]

I was doomed from the start.

No, just wrong from the start. Don't give up. I'm sure the local college run elementary math classes. Averages, you need to work on averages, then logs and exponential functions. I suggest you take note in the class on logs to base 10 and natural logs.

It has been almost fifty years since I mastered logarithms and graph paper and slide rules...

[JayUtah]

So essentially your mind is made up and no amount of evidence will suffice.  Interesting....

No.  You seem very desperate to put different words in my mouth than what I said.  I told you I would be convinced of a hoax by fairly comprehensive direct evidence.  I explained why that would be my standard of proof.  You didn't explain what, if anything, is irrational or unreasonable about that standard of proof.

You mentioned a deathbed confession, footage of the studio, and an admission by the government.  Out of those you mentioned, I said none of them would convince me.  That's because they fail to meet my standard of proof, for the reasons I gave.  I didn't say that nothing would convince me.  It may be that nothing you are able to provide can convince me, and that's perhaps as it should be.  There is no reason to lower the standard of proof to meet what the claimant is willing or able to provide.

As I said before, you're practically falling all over yourself looking for an excuse to write off your critics as closed-minded or ideologically impaired -- any reason that lets you keep believing there's a rational basis to your claims.  I present you with a reasonable standard of proof, and you run with it to the dismissal you've obviously predetermined for all your critics.  Interesting.

[Luke Pemberton]

I am concerned that in my absence the group will lose focus and resort to needle work...

Mmmm... the only patch working around here is coming from you, and I mean that in the metaphorical sense.

Flounce on the cards?

[JayUtah]

I was doomed from the start.

You were doomed from the start by having an improper understanding of the relevant sciences and the data, and doomed further by insisting upon an arrogant attitude that prevented you from understanding your mistakes.  You failed to meet a reasonable standard of proof, and now you're all butthurt over it.  Grow up.

[Luke Pemberton]

It has been almost fifty years since I mastered logarithms and graph paper and slide rules...

... but still to understand log scales and the difference between log₁₀, log_e and the term exponent; and that if we take an average of n numbers the average must be less than the biggest number and greater than the smallest number. Way to go champ.

If you want to play bragging rights, it's been 25 years since I mastered the mathematics of quantum mechanics and relativity (general and special). You really don't impress me Seaman Timmy.

[JayUtah]

I have business with the government and will be out of the office for a couple of weeks.  I need someone to stand in for me while I attend to matters of great importance to both me and the nation.  I am concerned that in my absence the group will lose focus and resort to needle work and soap operas.  Who can I trust to act in my behalf for the good of the group?  Anyone?

Spare us your delusions of grandeur.  You're not important.  When you retreat back into your walled garden of self-delusion, I assure you the rest of the universe will continue on appropriately.

[timfinch]

Seriously, my work here is done.  I knew I could never reach any of you directly.  My mission was a bit more subtle than that.  My mission was to get you to look closer and I accomplished that.  In the near future things will happen and you will reflect back on this encounter.  What you do not see now will clarify then.  I am on Facebook.  Shoot me a "You the man" when you see it.  And like old Tim always says.  Remain vigilant and stay thirsty.  Peace.

[JayUtah]

My mission was to get you to look closer and I accomplished that.

Spare us the delusions of grandeur.  You came here ill-prepared with the same unconvincing argument and the same arrogant attitude as nearly every other conspiracy theorist before you, made the same vague "Oooh, radiation!" arguments as about half of them do, failed to stand up to even a modicum of scrutiny, berated and belittled your critics, tried to gaslight them as much as possible, failed, and are now trying to rewrite the experience in your mind to make it seem like it's not a dismal failure.

You pretended to be something you aren't, and you got caught.  That's all that's happened.

[smartcooky]

My mission was to get you to look closer and I accomplished that.

Spare us the delusions of grandeur.  You came here ill-prepared with the same unconvincing argument and the same arrogant attitude as nearly every other conspiracy theorist before you, made the same vague "Oooh, radiation!" arguments as about half of them do, failed to stand up to even a modicum of scrutiny, berated and belittled your critics, tried to gaslight them as much as possible, failed, and are now trying to rewrite the experience in your mind to make it seem like it's not a dismal failure.

You pretended to be something you aren't, and you got caught.  That's all that's happened.

Its known as pigeon chess...

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pigeon_chess

[jfb]

We have something in common.  We are both old.  The difference is I am a war hero and you are not.

You'll find no one here diminishes your service to your country, and that we hold those that are prepared to sacrifice their lives for our freedoms in high regard.

I was just pulling your leg to get a rise out of you but thank you.  It was a kind thing to say.

Yup.  Troll.

[gillianren]

A guy once asked me if there was anything he could show me or tell or give to me that would make me believe in God.  After reflecting on it a long moment I told him no, there wasn't.  So he turned around and walked away.  I ask you gentlemen and lady.  Is there anything that I could show you are tell you or give to you that would convince you that you have been deceived?

Hey, I know you're mostly ignoring me, but I literally already gave you a list.  Pages back.  Want to give me yours?  Bet it isn't as comprehensive.

[gillianren]

Something has to be wrong.  Either NASA got the GCR radiation of cislunar space wrong or the recorded the mission dose wrong.  Of course there is the possibility it is all right and mission dose represents a stay in LEO and not a lunar transit but who am I to cast stones?

Or you're understanding it wrong.  Why is that not the most logical explanation?

Here's the deal, Tim.  You want me to admit that Apollo was faked?  Here's what you have to explain.

1.  Why all people working in relevant fields agree that the Apollo data--not just in radiation, but in geology, physics, engineering, and so forth--meets their expectations.

2.  Specifically how the footage was faked, given that it is literally impossible to do so in live action today.

3.  How you'd avoid the fact that the Apollo capsules were naked-eye objects and could be seen if they'd just stayed in LEO.

4.  How amateurs around the world, including in countries hostile to the US, were able to track the capsules on their way to and from the Moon.

5.  How the soil samples were faked.

6.  Why no government hostile to the US has ever revealed the "truth."

7.  Why Nixon agreed to go along with the fake when revealing that his hated political rivals were defrauding the American public could have made his reputation--or possibly saved him from having to resign over Watergate.

And that's just to start with.  If you can't explain all those things, the concept that you are mistaken is considerably more logical as an explanation when you can't understand how the data fits your expectations.

I know I'm not as fun to argue with as the scientist/engineer types, but here's my "start proving Apollo wrong" list.

[bknight]

A guy once asked me if there was anything he could show me or tell or give to me that would make me believe in God.  After reflecting on it a long moment I told him no, there wasn't.  So he turned around and walked away.  I ask you gentlemen and lady.  Is there anything that I could show you are tell you or give to you that would convince you that you have been deceived?

If you could back it with data, then yes.  But you have provided no data, because there isn't any, quit trying to find them.
I've told you once and I'll repeat:
I don't believe in Apollo.  Rather I know Apollo happened as recorded, because the data, paperwork, materials, hardware/software that went into the project are too enormous to hand wave away.
And like a good many here, I went to school with slide rules and graph paper.  You have nothing on me and I understand logarithmic units and how to plot them.  From you posts you don't understand and many are attempting to teach you, but you won't listen because you are right and the rest of are wrong.

Jay doesn't need anyone to stick up for him, but he has forgotten more Apollo information than you will ever know.

[nomuse]

Seriously, my work here is done.  I knew I could never reach any of you directly.  My mission was a bit more subtle than that.  My mission was to get you to look closer and I accomplished that.  In the near future things will happen and you will reflect back on this encounter.  What you do not see now will clarify then.  I am on Facebook.  Shoot me a "You the man" when you see it.  And like old Tim always says.  Remain vigilant and stay thirsty.  Peace.

Suuure you did. You came to a forum which has been around for, what, thirty years now, filled with people who are fans of the Apollo Program. Of course we've looked at it closely before you came. That's what we do. It isn't empty celebration, it is the joy of understanding and, yes, discovery.

Oh, and the piddling nonsense the conspiracy believers bring to the table? Yes, sometimes it does start a new avenue of exploration, but it is rarely in the direction the conspiracy believer had intended. Doesn't help that, at this date, we know all the tired canards better than they do.

[jfb]

A guy once asked me if there was anything he could show me or tell or give to me that would make me believe in God.  After reflecting on it a long moment I told him no, there wasn't.  So he turned around and walked away.  I ask you gentlemen and lady.  Is there anything that I could show you are tell you or give to you that would convince you that you have been deceived?

If you could back it with data, then yes.  But you have provided no data, because there isn't any, quit trying to find them.
I've told you once and I'll repeat:
I don't believe in Apollo.  Rather I know Apollo happened as recorded, because the data, paperwork, materials, hardware/software that went into the project are too enormous to hand wave away.
And like a good many here, I went to school with slide rules and graph paper.  You have nothing on me and I understand logarithmic units and how to plot them.  From you posts you don't understand and many are attempting to teach you, but you won't listen because you are right and the rest of are wrong.

Jay doesn't need anyone to stick up for him, but he has forgotten more Apollo information than you will ever know.

Put another way, acceptance of the Apollo missions isn't a matter of belief, it's a matter of data. 

Data that Tim is deliberately misunderstanding so he can troll as many people as possible.