Author Topic: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots  (Read 440338 times)

Offline LunarOrbit

  • Administrator
  • Saturn
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
    • ApolloHoax.net
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #675 on: May 22, 2012, 10:36:21 PM »

Yes... puzzle pieces always fit if you force them to.
The closer one gets to the truth the more things begin to connect and make sense.

You're about as far from the truth as you could get.

Quote
Quote
1) How can someone standing in front of JFK and Governor Connally shoot them in the back?
With a different focus on the evidence it is done.

If you don't know the answer just say so.

Quote
Quote
2) Why would the conspirators use multiple assassins if they want people to believe there was only one? Why position assassins in any position besides the one they want their patsy  to be caught in? If the trajectories of the bullets lead investigators anywhere besides that one position then the conspiracy would be discovered.
There was only 1 shooter
But if the evidence of the trajectories can be controlled, you can also control the position of the assassin.

The evidence of the trajectories hasn't been controlled. We know JFK and Governor Connally were shot in the back. So again I ask you to explain how someone standing in front of the victims could have shot them in the back. Magic bullets?

Quote
Quote
3) Why would the conspirators plant any make of rifle besides the same one their patsy used?
I have not put any attention on this yet

You seemed pretty certain that the rifle that was recovered was not Oswalds. How did you reach that conclusion if you hadn't "put any attention on it yet"? Are you in the habit of reaching conclusions before thinking about it? Doesn't that seem a bit backwards to you?

Quote
Quote
4) Why would the conspirators plant pristine bullets? Or any bullets at all? What do they accomplish by planting the bullets? Aren't the wounds proof enough that the victims were shot?
The bullet ballistics result in a perfect match to "Oswald's" rifle. Perfect frame up.
The wounds are proof they were shot, yes. 

Partial answer. But why pristine bullets? Are the conspirators total morons?
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline profmunkin

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 454
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #676 on: May 22, 2012, 10:38:09 PM »

Insulting members of this forum will get you banned quicker than anything else you can do.
I have been posting testimony, data and questions
Forum has replied with hearsay, excuses and compliance to conformity.

If this gets me banned, so be it.


Offline Ranb

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #677 on: May 22, 2012, 11:12:31 PM »
It raises the question how the clip was be loaded if it was bent.
Is there any evidence that the clip was bent or rusted?
Did anyone mention any problems of removing the clip?

Is it true that the clip must contain 6 rounds to load or is this a myth?
One of my clips had the lips bent out, this made it wider so that it was a bit sticky in the magazine.  I am not aware of any evidence that the clip Oswald used was damaged in any way at all nor have I ever heard of any issues about the clip.  The clip can be properly inserted into the magazine with any number of cartridges inserted into it.

So how is it that you have arrived at any opinions concerning this rifle without knowing the basics of its construction and operation?  Shouldn't you be learning about the Carcano before coming to any conclusions?

Ranb

Offline Chew

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #678 on: May 22, 2012, 11:14:35 PM »
Forum has replied with hearsay, excuses and compliance to conformity.

Conformity, huh? Has it ever occurred to you that I, and I'm assuming a lot of the members on this forum, used to believe the assassination was a conspiracy?

Offline LunarOrbit

  • Administrator
  • Saturn
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
    • ApolloHoax.net
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #679 on: May 22, 2012, 11:23:32 PM »
I have been posting testimony, data and questions

You have been posting nothing but cherry-picked testimony and your own twisted interpretation of the data. You have ignored anything that contradicts your beliefs (things like science and logic).

Quote
Forum has replied with hearsay, excuses and compliance to conformity.

You've shown that you don't even understand the meaning of the word hearsay. What you have dismissed as "excuses" have been valid arguments based on sound reasoning. And what you see as "compliance to conformity" has been intelligent people recognizing that your arguments have absolutely no merit. You are completely out of touch with reality.

Quote
If this gets me banned, so be it.

Technically speaking you're already banned, I've just been generous enough to allow you to post anyway. You were banned on the old forum, and then you justified it even further by having Proboards delete all of your posts. The only question is why I still allow you to post here. I don't have an answer to that.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline LunarOrbit

  • Administrator
  • Saturn
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
    • ApolloHoax.net
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #680 on: May 22, 2012, 11:25:31 PM »
Forum has replied with hearsay, excuses and compliance to conformity.

Conformity, huh? Has it ever occurred to you that I, and I'm assuming a lot of the members on this forum, used to believe the assassination was a conspiracy?

Heck, I'm still willing to entertain the possibility that Lee Harvey Oswald was encouraged or assisted. There's just no evidence to support that. And I don't see any scenario in which Oswald was not involved at all in the assassination.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline twik

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 595
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #681 on: May 22, 2012, 11:29:29 PM »
Partial answer. But why pristine bullets? Are the conspirators total morons?

Apparently. I mean, they drop a weapon to implicate Oswald, and don't even ensure it's the type of rifle Oswald owns. So, apparently, they have to then running around pressuring people to change their stories after the fact. But, it's a perfect frame-up, to plant an undamaged bullet from a different make of gun than what they dropped in the TSBD.

I can imagine the conversation, "Yeah, we left the Mauser there like you wanted ... what? You wanted us to leave a Carcano? Sheesh, details, details...."

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 2211
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #682 on: May 22, 2012, 11:30:34 PM »
Heck, I'm still willing to entertain the possibility that Lee Harvey Oswald was encouraged or assisted. There's just no evidence to support that. And I don't see any scenario in which Oswald was not involved at all in the assassination.

It would be out of keeping with what I've learned about Lee's character, but it's possible he could have been nudged into doing it.  It might have been easy to taunt him into doing it--"you think you're so tough" and all that.  But again, I've never seen any persuasive evidence.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline ka9q

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3014
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #683 on: May 23, 2012, 12:25:24 AM »
It would be out of keeping with what I've learned about Lee's character, but it's possible he could have been nudged into doing it.  It might have been easy to taunt him into doing it--"you think you're so tough" and all that.  But again, I've never seen any persuasive evidence
Agreed. I used to consider it possible that the Cubans somehow prompted or encouraged Oswald to kill JFK, perhaps unintentionally, during his visit to their consulate in Mexico City. Maybe they said something like "So you want to be a hero of our Revolution, huh? Go take care of that warmonger JFK and then we'll talk", never dreaming that Oswald could or would actually do it.

But even this just doesn't work. Neither Oswald nor the Cubans yet knew that JFK would ride right past the Depository in an open convertible a few months later. Oswald didn't even get his job at the Depository until after he returned from Mexico City and struck out at several other places, and then only by chance word of mouth.

Given the enormous hostility between the US and Cuba, much of which still remains, I am somewhat surprised that the Cubans helped our investigation as much as they did. Regardless of their role, they must have known how bad it looked for the man who killed the President of the United States to have visited their consulate in Mexico City only a few months previously. Even if they had only sarcastically suggested to Oswald that he assassinate JFK, I certainly wouldn't expect them to volunteer such information after the fact; to do so would have been probable suicide. I'd expect them to flatly deny that he had ever been there. I certainly wouldn't expect them to make Oswald's original visa applications available or to allow their consular workers to be interviewed.

All said, I still think it possible that Oswald had some sort of vague plan to return to Mexico City in triumph after the assassination, but that was purely the product of Oswald's deluded brain and not anyone in the Cuban consulate.



« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 12:27:52 AM by ka9q »

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 2211
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #684 on: May 23, 2012, 02:57:28 AM »
Oh, yes; my idea limits it to someone approaching him after the motorcade route was published.  After all, Lee wasn't exactly averse to publicity.  I don't think it would take much to tip the scales there.  Theoretical conspirators would have been extremely lucky--luckier, in many ways, than the actual conspirators in the death of Lincoln!
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Jason Thompson

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1601
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #685 on: May 23, 2012, 03:15:59 AM »
Question re: the clip:

Do we know it was empty? On the video posted in this thread the clip contains six rounds. Assuming Oswald had a full clip, he fired three bullets, and a fourth was ejected when the rifle was discovered. That still leaves two bullets in the clip, doesn't it?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Jason Thompson

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1601
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #686 on: May 23, 2012, 04:20:22 AM »
I have been posting testimony, data and questions
Forum has replied with hearsay, excuses and compliance to conformity.

Absolute horse manure. Physics and science and details of experiments is not 'hearsay' or 'excuses'. FACT: bullets do NOT throw their targets around as they transfer very little momentum to the target as they penetrate it, as proved by countless experiments. FACT: serious sudden damage to, or destruction of, the brain causes muscular spasms, as proved by countless experiments. FACT: Localising a sound like a gunshot is very difficult due to echoes, reflection and refraction of sound, as proved by countless experiments and everyday experience. This is nothing but science based on centuries of study. Do you understand that? Centuries.

How arrogant of you to dismiss it just because it doesn't agree with your layman's understanding of the world.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline twik

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 595
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #687 on: May 23, 2012, 07:45:29 AM »
When it comes to special pleading, I haven't seen anything to top the suggestion that the bullet entered JFK's head from a position from the front right side (because the grassy knoll is not directly ahead of the motorcade), and yet somehow veered so it didn't hit Jackie, who would have been directly in line. That's the real "magic bullet" right there.

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1490
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #688 on: May 23, 2012, 07:56:42 AM »

Insulting members of this forum will get you banned quicker than anything else you can do.
I have been posting testimony, data and questions
Forum has replied with hearsay, excuses and compliance to conformity.

If this gets me banned, so be it.

Nonsense, you stated with a claim of "3 shooters 6 shots" and have been backtracking since then. You now claim to be investigating certain aspects and are unwilling to present any cogent theory of what happened until we accept your interpretations of evidence or to explain why your interpretations should be preferred over those of others.


In addition, excusing your own rudeness using a straw man characterization to criticize your opponents is chicken.  You simply owe gillianren an apology.  That is really all that is required.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Ranb

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #689 on: May 23, 2012, 08:14:13 AM »
Do we know it was empty? On the video posted in this thread the clip contains six rounds. Assuming Oswald had a full clip, he fired three bullets, and a fourth was ejected when the rifle was discovered. That still leaves two bullets in the clip, doesn't it?
I may be wrong, but from what I read, Oswald was so unprepared to use his rifle that he only had 4 cartridges left when he got ready to kill JFK.  While it is hard for me to load a less than full Garand clip in a rifle, it is easy to load any number of 1 to 6 cartridges into the Carcano.

Ranb