Half arguments and problems for the hoax

[Sus_pilot]

The "whistleblower" notion ignores the most obvious source for whistleblowers: the managers, scientists, engineers, and technicians who actually made Apollo happen.  I've worked with some of them.  The idea that they would stand for that sort of crap is laughable, and shows how completely hoax believers are removed from the reality of Apollo in particular and aerospace in general. 

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.  Such a profoundly silly claim also demonstrates the HBs' disconnect from reality.

Yes, they claim that only a handful of people were in on it, yet obliviously involve every past, present and future expert when they claim that the radiation in the VAB would have fried them.

Not really pertinent, but when I read this post, for about 10 seconds, I wondered just what radiation hazard would be present in the Vehicle Assembly Building.

D'oh!

[Willoughby]

The "whistleblower" notion ignores the most obvious source for whistleblowers: the managers, scientists, engineers, and technicians who actually made Apollo happen.  I've worked with some of them.  The idea that they would stand for that sort of crap is laughable, and shows how completely hoax believers are removed from the reality of Apollo in particular and aerospace in general. 

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.  Such a profoundly silly claim also demonstrates the HBs' disconnect from reality.

Yes, they claim that only a handful of people were in on it, yet obliviously involve every past, present and future expert when they claim that the radiation in the VAB would have fried them.

Not really pertinent, but when I read this post, for about 10 seconds, I wondered just what radiation hazard would be present in the Vehicle Assembly Building.

D'oh!

HA!

[Luckmeister]

The "whistleblower" notion ignores the most obvious source for whistleblowers: the managers, scientists, engineers, and technicians who actually made Apollo happen.  I've worked with some of them.  The idea that they would stand for that sort of crap is laughable, and shows how completely hoax believers are removed from the reality of Apollo in particular and aerospace in general. 

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.  Such a profoundly silly claim also demonstrates the HBs' disconnect from reality.

Yes, they claim that only a handful of people were in on it, yet obliviously involve every past, present and future expert when they claim that the radiation in the VAB would have fried them.

Not really pertinent, but when I read this post, for about 10 seconds, I wondered just what radiation hazard would be present in the Vehicle Assembly Building.

D'oh!

When it's obvious it was Vandenberg Air Base intended, 

[ka9q]

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.

This is one of the more infuriating claims, and it has become rather popular lately.

It certainly belies a complete ignorance of how engineers, scientists and technicians think, work and communicate. And it goes without saying that it's a particularly nasty insult to their intelligence.

[smartcooky]

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.

This is one of the more infuriating claims, and it has become rather popular lately.

It certainly belies a complete ignorance of how engineers, scientists and technicians think, work and communicate. And it goes without saying that it's a particularly nasty insult to their intelligence.

And how do you isolate those "in the know" from those who are not?

Every engineer who worked on any aspect of Apollo would have needed to be "in the know" because if they weren't, they would spot the bit of engineering that they know would not work  and the game would be up.

Its a fairly established fact that as more people are added to a group that know a secret, the chances of that secret getting out increases dramatically... Watergate is a good example, only about a dozen people new about the break-in when it happened in June 1972. By September, the world knew about it. Even worse was the Lewinsky scandal... only two people knew about it... President Clinton and the woman he was bonking, yet it still got out within a year of the affair.

The HBs would have us believe that NASA and the US Government, with many times the number of people involved in Watergate or the Lewinsky scandal, who would have need to be "in the know", have somehow been able to keep a lid on "da twoof" for almost 47 years!!! This doesn't just strain credulity to the limit, it strains it beyond breaking point...it is simply impossible!

[bknight]

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.

This is one of the more infuriating claims, and it has become rather popular lately.

It certainly belies a complete ignorance of how engineers, scientists and technicians think, work and communicate. And it goes without saying that it's a particularly nasty insult to their intelligence.

And how do you isolate those "in the know" from those who are not?

Every engineer who worked on any aspect of Apollo would have needed to be "in the know" because if they weren't, they would spot the bit of engineering that they know would not work  and the game would be up.

Its a fairly established fact that as more people are added to a group that know a secret, the chances of that secret getting out increases dramatically... Watergate is a good example, only about a dozen people new about the break-in when it happened in June 1972. By September, the world knew about it. Even worse was the Lewinsky scandal... only two people knew about it... President Clinton and the woman he was bonking, yet it still got out within a year of the affair.

The HBs would have us believe that NASA and the US Government, with many times the number of people involved in Watergate or the Lewinsky scandal, who would have need to be "in the know", have somehow been able to keep a lid on "da twoof" for almost 47 years!!! This doesn't just strain credulity to the limit, it strains it beyond breaking point...it is simply impossible!

In addition to the time involved, there have been no "death bed confessionals", and we are getting older>

[Sus_pilot]

The "whistleblower" notion ignores the most obvious source for whistleblowers: the managers, scientists, engineers, and technicians who actually made Apollo happen.  I've worked with some of them.  The idea that they would stand for that sort of crap is laughable, and shows how completely hoax believers are removed from the reality of Apollo in particular and aerospace in general. 

They sometimes try to get around this by saying only a handful of people were really in on it, and everyone else just thought they were working on the real thing.  Such a profoundly silly claim also demonstrates the HBs' disconnect from reality.

Yes, they claim that only a handful of people were in on it, yet obliviously involve every past, present and future expert when they claim that the radiation in the VAB would have fried them.

Not really pertinent, but when I read this post, for about 10 seconds, I wondered just what radiation hazard would be present in the Vehicle Assembly Building.

D'oh!

When it's obvious it was Vandenberg Air Base intended, 

But that would have been VBG (or KVBG).  Clearly an intentional mistake by a whistleblower!

[ineluki]

Where's Apollo's 'Deep Throat'?

Isn't that Kaysing, the NASA engineer with inside knowlegde? Three lies for the price of one...

[bknight]

Where's Apollo's 'Deep Throat'?

Isn't that Kaysing, the NASA engineer with inside knowlegde? Three lies for the price of one...

Kaysing WAS NOT AN ENGINEER he had a degree in English IIRC.

[Peter B]

Where's Apollo's 'Deep Throat'?

Isn't that Kaysing, the NASA engineer with inside knowlegde? Three lies for the price of one...

Kaysing WAS NOT AN ENGINEER he had a degree in English IIRC.

Ahem! I...er...think that was (part of) Ineluki's point.

[Jason Thompson]

Every engineer who worked on any aspect of Apollo would have needed to be "in the know" because if they weren't, they would spot the bit of engineering that they know would not work  and the game would be up.

The alternative to that, as proposed by HBs when confronted with the problem of the huge number of people who would be likely to blow the secret, is to say that only top level managers were 'in on it' and the shop floor guys were not. This fails for the simple reason that if none of your engineers are in the know they will do their jobs and actually build working hardware, thereby removing the need for faking it anyway.

[onebigmonkey]

Yeah, and those guys sieving all the sand and dumping it in a massive studio set with the life-sized model LM would never have batted an eyelid, seeing is they weren't in the know...

[bknight]

Where's Apollo's 'Deep Throat'?

Isn't that Kaysing, the NASA engineer with inside knowlegde? Three lies for the price of one...

Kaysing WAS NOT AN ENGINEER he had a degree in English IIRC.

Ahem! I...er...think that was (part of) Ineluki's point.

LOL, yes I believe that was what I quoted, but I may have made a mistake.  It certainly wouldn't be the first nor the last.

[bknight]

Every engineer who worked on any aspect of Apollo would have needed to be "in the know" because if they weren't, they would spot the bit of engineering that they know would not work  and the game would be up.

The alternative to that, as proposed by HBs when confronted with the problem of the huge number of people who would be likely to blow the secret, is to say that only top level managers were 'in on it' and the shop floor guys were not. This fails for the simple reason that if none of your engineers are in the know they will do their jobs and actually build working hardware, thereby removing the need for faking it anyway.

Very true and this reminds me of the British video of the people discussing a "Fake"  mission and the woman indicates that no they need to build a massive rocket!

[bknight]

Yeah, and those guys sieving all the sand and dumping it in a massive studio set with the life-sized model LM would never have batted an eyelid, seeing is they weren't in the know...

And a LRV to drive around the massive set.