Author Topic: The Baloney Detection Kit  (Read 15640 times)

Offline smartcooky

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2013, 06:16:43 PM »

Not true!  Karel Kowalski was on the ill-fated Apollo 18 flight, and he's certainly been magnetized by the solar wind by this time!

Who?
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Donnie B.

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2013, 06:58:46 PM »
CMP of Apollo 18, the magnetic Pole.

Okay, maybe it's not as funny as I thought.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2013, 08:34:03 PM »
CMP of Apollo 18, the magnetic Pole.

Okay, maybe it's not as funny as I thought.

The CMP of Apollo 18 was to have been Vance D. Brand (an American) and he was actually CMP on Apollo-Soyuz

If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline nomuse

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 09:17:32 PM »
I was following some completely unrelated stuff (or so I thought!) and I ran into this:

Quote
Formal logical proofs, and therefore programs – formal logical proofs that particular computations are possible, expressed in a formal system called a programming language – are utterly meaningless. To write a computer program you have to come to terms with this, to accept that whatever you might want the program to mean, the machine will blindly follow its meaningless rules and come to some meaningless conclusion. In the test the consistent group showed a pre-acceptance of this fact: they are capable of seeing mathematical calculation problems in terms of rules, and can follow those rules wheresoever they may lead. The inconsistent group, on the other hand, looks for meaning where it is not. The blank group knows that it is looking at meaninglessness, and refuses to deal with it.

Which was in a discussion about -- at least according to one paper -- some 30-40% of incoming freshmen could not learn to program and would never learn to program.  As in, the history of CS classes seemed to show there was a sizable population that was simply unteachable.

Now I'm a huge believer in plasticity.  Heck, good lines of evidence are showing that perfect pitch is not as innate as we thought it was.  But it does seem possible that there is a basic division in how one constructs certain sorts of thoughts.  One group has as part of its worldview a habit of manipulating symbolic logic in the terms required by the computer.  The other has a different set of associations and habits and is forced to unlearn as much as they learn in order to grasp the subject.

But this is one paper, which I haven't even read; I'm mindlessly speculating at this point; I'm following a process no more rigorous than that of the typical hoax believer.  That given; interesting thought or no?

Offline Echnaton

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2013, 07:33:46 AM »
The CMP of Apollo 18 was to have been Vance D. Brand (an American) and he was actually CMP on Apollo-Soyuz



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772240/

http://apollo18movie.net/
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Echnaton

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2013, 07:35:05 AM »
CMP of Apollo 18, the magnetic Pole.

Okay, maybe it's not as funny as I thought.

It took me a few seconds, but it was funny.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline RAF

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 08:19:16 AM »
It took me a few seconds, but it was funny.

The joke or the movie?....or both??

Offline Echnaton

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 08:42:18 AM »
It took me a few seconds, but it was funny.

The joke or the movie?....or both??

The movie was a joke, but it wasn't funny. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Noldi400

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2013, 10:44:32 AM »
I was following some completely unrelated stuff (or so I thought!) and I ran into this:

Quote
Formal logical proofs, and therefore programs – formal logical proofs that particular computations are possible, expressed in a formal system called a programming language – are utterly meaningless. To write a computer program you have to come to terms with this, to accept that whatever you might want the program to mean, the machine will blindly follow its meaningless rules and come to some meaningless conclusion. In the test the consistent group showed a pre-acceptance of this fact: they are capable of seeing mathematical calculation problems in terms of rules, and can follow those rules wheresoever they may lead. The inconsistent group, on the other hand, looks for meaning where it is not. The blank group knows that it is looking at meaninglessness, and refuses to deal with it.

Which was in a discussion about -- at least according to one paper -- some 30-40% of incoming freshmen could not learn to program and would never learn to program.  As in, the history of CS classes seemed to show there was a sizable population that was simply unteachable.

Now I'm a huge believer in plasticity.  Heck, good lines of evidence are showing that perfect pitch is not as innate as we thought it was.  But it does seem possible that there is a basic division in how one constructs certain sorts of thoughts.  One group has as part of its worldview a habit of manipulating symbolic logic in the terms required by the computer.  The other has a different set of associations and habits and is forced to unlearn as much as they learn in order to grasp the subject.

But this is one paper, which I haven't even read; I'm mindlessly speculating at this point; I'm following a process no more rigorous than that of the typical hoax believer.  That given; interesting thought or no?

It's been a long lime, and I don't remember the exact book, but I remember a line in a programming manual long ago that went something like: "Since the elusive 'do-what-I-meant' logic has still not been invented, for now we are stuck with 'do-what-I-said logic'".

"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline nomuse

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 02:12:04 AM »
Heh!

It's been a bit on my mind recently, as I've been trying to introduce my 9-year old niece to programming.  Not helped by the fact that I'm self taught, new to most of it, and only on a good day can get 20 lines of bog-standard C to compile correctly.  I am very far from being able to think about problems in the terms a decent programmer can.

And also struggling with a novel where a rationalist is confronted by the supernatural in such a way as to produce a whole bunch of "How do we know what we know" kinds of situations/lectures.

Offline gillianren

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Re: The Baloney Detection Kit
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2013, 11:24:31 AM »
That doesn't sound like a novel.  It sounds like a thinly disguised tract.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates