ApolloHoax.net
Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: 12oh2alarm on August 10, 2015, 03:56:01 PM
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Since a forum search for "Wintzer" came up empty, maybe we have something new to discuss.
Jet Wintzer made a 55min feature film, with the title from the subject, available as
Unlike Wunder-Blunder he goes to great length to match mission transcripts, voice and video. Unlike many loons among the CTs, he also credits astronauts as heroic, so I hesitate to toss him in the loony bin.
Among the handful of "issues" there are two that are easily explained.
- At about 5:00 The swinging MESA bag is exactly what one would expect to happen for a loosely connected item (much like that swinging lanyard filmed on one of the missions that can be used to calculate the local acceleration, e.g.
- "Covert Light?" at about 34:30 The reflex in the visor is clearly reflected sunlight by some part, probably not the round glass, rather the side, of Duke's wrist watch. The movement of the light spot on the suit is completely consistent with the turning of the wrist and arm movement.
I don't know why he makes such a fuzz about "shadows" at about 3:00. Maybe Dwight is able to explain these TV artefacts? (We all know a color wheel was used, but what could have caused these two moving stripes in short succession?)
As for the smudge on the reseau plate, I don't know what to make of it.
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Don't waste your time. This is the guy. http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/birther-cast-and-crew/lawyers/leo-donofrio/ (http://www.thefogbow.com/birther-claims-debunked1/birther-cast-and-crew/lawyers/leo-donofrio/)
Claims to be the reincarnation of the Holy Spirit.
Certifiable.
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Since a forum search for "Wintzer" came up empty, maybe we have something new to discuss.
Jet Wintzer made a 55min feature film, with the title from the subject, available as
Unlike Wunder-Blunder he goes to great length to match mission transcripts, voice and video. Unlike many loons among the CTs, he also credits astronauts as heroic, so I hesitate to toss him in the loony bin.
Among the handful of "issues" there are two that are easily explained.
- At about 5:00 The swinging MESA bag is exactly what one would expect to happen for a loosely connected item (much like that swinging lanyard filmed on one of the missions that can be used to calculate the local acceleration, e.g.
- "Covert Light?" at about 34:30 The reflex in the visor is clearly reflected sunlight by some part, probably not the round glass, rather the side, of Duke's wrist watch. The movement of the light spot on the suit is completely consistent with the turning of the wrist and arm movement.
I don't know why he makes such a fuzz about "shadows" at about 3:00. Maybe Dwight is able to explain these TV artefacts? (We all know a color wheel was used, but what could have caused these two moving stripes in short succession?)
As for the smudge on the reseau plate, I don't know what to make of it.
Oh, and the reseau plate smudge has been done to death. ISTR AwE was the most recent deluded proponent of the reseau plate smudge.
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Somehow the search must have fooled me. Nothing to see here, folks. It's all in http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=853.0
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Unlike many loons among the CTs, he also credits astronauts as heroic, so I hesitate to toss him in the loony bin.
Believe it or not, I've actually seen several loons call the astronuats heroic, at the same time they are calling them liars and frauds. Go figure.
(edited to add)
One thing I’ve noticed about many hoax theorists is that they attack us, the defenders of Apollo, and they attack NASA as an organization, but they tend to hesitate personally attacking any of the high-profile individuals at NASA. Of course by making the claims that they do, and by going after NASA, they are by extension attacking the astronauts and all the people who were part of Apollo. When we point that fact out, the HB will often start backpedaling. They’ll sometimes say something like the astronauts were forced into it, or they we just doing what their country asked of them, etc. I guess some HBs just don’t have the guts to put a name and a face to the people they are calling criminals. Instead they blame the namely and faceless “powers that be”.
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Somehow the search must have fooled me. Nothing to see here, folks. It's all in http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=853.0
Anyone's google-fu can fail at a moments notice. no harm.
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Unlike many loons among the CTs, he also credits astronauts as heroic, so I hesitate to toss him in the loony bin.
Believe it or not, I've actually seen several loons call the astronuats heroic, at the same time they are calling them liars and frauds. Go figure.
(edited to add)
One thing I’ve noticed about many hoax theorists is that they attack us, the defenders of Apollo, and they attack NASA as an organization, but they tend to hesitate personally attacking any of the high-profile individuals at NASA. Of course by making the claims that they do, and by going after NASA, they are by extension attacking the astronauts and all the people who were part of Apollo. When we point that fact out, the HB will often start backpedaling. They’ll sometimes say something like the astronauts were forced into it, or they we just doing what their country asked of them, etc. I guess some HBs just don’t have the guts to put a name and a face to the people they are calling criminals. Instead they blame the namely and faceless “powers that be”.
Well, given what happened to the last one who did . . .
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Bart is an annoying individual on a mission to fund his way of life, call it a job if you like. I have watched his video where he gets into astronauts lives and ask them the pertinent HB questions. None of those encounters went well, especially Buzz's left hook. These guys are still a close fraternity and the word got around so none of them would engage with his silliness.
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It wasn't the first time Sibrel had harassed them, hence Armstrong's "You again?"
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It wasn't the first time Sibrel had harassed them, hence Armstrong's "You again?"
True, but I was referring to the video "Astronauts Gone Wild" Bart neglected to present all the efforts attempted.
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The whole time I was writing that paragraph I was thinking to myself that the one obvious exception is Bart Sibrel.
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More seriously, and from a more cynical perspective, it's easier to gain audience sympathy if you simply blame the faceless They and Them. Saying that humble, soft spoken gentlemen was a liar? That's a harder sell.
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Believe it or not, I've actually seen several loons call the astronuats heroic, at the same time they are calling them liars and frauds. Go figure.
(edited to add)
One thing I’ve noticed about many hoax theorists is that they attack us, the defenders of Apollo, and they attack NASA as an organization, but they tend to hesitate personally attacking any of the high-profile individuals at NASA. Of course by making the claims that they do, and by going after NASA, they are by extension attacking the astronauts and all the people who were part of Apollo. When we point that fact out, the HB will often start backpedaling. They’ll sometimes say something like the astronauts were forced into it, or they we just doing what their country asked of them, etc. I guess some HBs just don’t have the guts to put a name and a face to the people they are calling criminals. Instead they blame the namely and faceless “powers that be”.
I love the notion of Apollo defenders being "Paid" shills, does anyone know who coined the phrase? Some take this invention to the point of even quoting our pay scale. :D :D
PS:- My Cheque was light this month, am I not putting in enough hours?? :)
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At least you got a check. :D
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More seriously, and from a more cynical perspective, it's easier to gain audience sympathy if you simply blame the faceless They and Them. Saying that humble, soft spoken gentlemen was a liar? That's a harder sell.
I remember several years ago an HB was rambling on about how the moon rocks are fake and how the geologists who claimed they are from the moon are liars. Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
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I don't know why he makes such a fuzz about "shadows" at about 3:00. Maybe Dwight is able to explain these TV artefacts? (We all know a color wheel was used, but what could have caused these two moving stripes in short succession?)
As for the smudge on the reseau plate, I don't know what to make of it.
12oh2alarm, thanks for the link. Hoax "researchers" aside, even blind Freddy could see that the two objects displayed the sequential colour artefacts as they move. I say that these are cables connecting the uplink TV antenna or the smaller low gain antenna. A cursory glance at the LRV photos clearly show where these cables lay, and how when moved would obstruct the TV lens. I am dismayed that these people aren't even trying anymore.
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More seriously, and from a more cynical perspective, it's easier to gain audience sympathy if you simply blame the faceless They and Them. Saying that humble, soft spoken gentlemen was a liar? That's a harder sell.
I remember several years ago an HB was rambling on about how the moon rocks are fake and how the geologists who claimed they are from the moon are liars. Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
Geeze, I've been in this 'business' too long, as that actually rings bells.
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Unlike many loons among the CTs, he also credits astronauts as heroic, so I hesitate to toss him in the loony bin.
Believe it or not, I've actually seen several loons call the astronuats heroic, at the same time they are calling them liars and frauds. Go figure.
(edited to add)
One thing I’ve noticed about many hoax theorists is that they attack us, the defenders of Apollo, and they attack NASA as an organization, but they tend to hesitate personally attacking any of the high-profile individuals at NASA. Of course by making the claims that they do, and by going after NASA, they are by extension attacking the astronauts and all the people who were part of Apollo. When we point that fact out, the HB will often start backpedaling. They’ll sometimes say something like the astronauts were forced into it, or they we just doing what their country asked of them, etc. I guess some HBs just don’t have the guts to put a name and a face to the people they are calling criminals. Instead they blame the namely and faceless “powers that be”.
Well, given what happened to the last one who did . . .
That clip never gets old "You're coward, a liar and th-(bang)-fffff".
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I remember several years ago an HB was rambling on about how the moon rocks are fake and how the geologists who claimed they are from the moon are liars. Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
That might be this thread in July 2005, Rocks from the Moon
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/614/rocks-moon
The goalpost-shifting hoax-believer at the time was Margamatix, whom Australian member PeterB addressed in the opening post.
The list of scientists, who had put their names forward to examine the Apollo 11 rocks, came from the Apollo 11 Press Kit, which is available at the ALSJ (17th item under Background Material, 9 Mb), or I've done a typescript anyone can have -- Open Document format, 86 A4 pages if printed (250 in the original), 128 kb.
The list of names starts in the third post and continues in the fourth.
Margamatix's first reply regarding the scientists was:
It's not a case of being "in on the hoax". I am sure they genuinely believe in what they are saying, just as those who persecuted "witches" in Salem did in the late 1600s.
The Salem witchcraft hysteria is probably the closest thing in history to moon-landing-belief hysteria, but in the end, the truth outed, and it will about the Apollo moon-faking too.
Ten years have passed, and his "Apollo moon-faking" still hasn't been exposed.
Here's the updated link to the web-page from Washington University in St Louis which Phantom Wolf linked about Lunar Meteorites:--
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm
And more technical information about Meteorites with links at the bottom of the page to more literature:--
http://eps.wustl.edu/people/randy_korotev
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Ten years have passed, and his "Apollo moon-faking" still hasn't been exposed.
True, but with the increased use of the internet, especially an younger age group, the HB's are still there. They still exist not necessarily coming to anti HB beliefs like here. Hiding with the anonymity that the internet provides.
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I don't know; I've read entire books about conspiracism that don't mention hoax belief at all. I also resent like hell the idea that "people who don't remember Apollo don't believe it's real." I was -7 when the first Apollo landing happened, and I know they happened.
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I'm not saying all who were not alive to experience(say maybe 5-7 years old) believe in the conspiracy. Poll results have indicated that about 6-7% of the general population believe in the conspiracy, but when taking age into the analysis it jumps to 29-30% for the under 25 year olds. I'll have to find that poll, because I'm remembering and the mind doesn't remember as well as it used to remember. :)
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I have 2006 Dittmar Poll among young American adults indicated 27% expressed doubt NASA went to the moon with 10% of the overall sample indicating that it was "Highly unlikely" that a manned moon landing had ever taken place. The Zogby poll(2001) mentioned earlier concurs, noting fewer 18-29 year olds than any other age group belive the Moon landing occurred. Page 64 https://books.google.com/books?id=2SL1BQAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=2006+dittmar+associates+poll+concerning+moon+landing&source=bl&ots=hmryQGY_DV&sig=7KSiJ1MY7TFY_Arsk1fkVgnE7ew&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI64PcsYCkxwIVw5qACh2X8Qy3
The numbers were indeed different than my memory, but the conclusion is correct.
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Well, I wasn't quite a zygote yet when Challenger and its crew met their fate, so make of that you will.
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Well, I wasn't quite a zygote yet when Challenger and its crew met their fate, so make of that you will.
I'm too new to grasp the meaning? Could you please expand the thought?
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Well, I wasn't quite a zygote yet when Challenger and its crew met their fate, so make of that you will.
I'm too new to grasp the meaning? Could you please expand the thought?
A Zygote is a fertilized egg, and Challenger had its final liftoff on January 29th, 1986, and I was born over 9 months after, meaning I wasn't even conceived at the time.
My point was that I wasn't there for Apollo, and I am still in the 18-29 demographic, and I most certainly am convinced Apollo is real.
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A Zygote is a fertilized egg, and Challenger had its final liftoff on January 29th, 1986, and I was born over 9 months after, meaning I wasn't even conceived at the time.
My point was that I wasn't there for Apollo, and I am still in the 18-29 demographic, and I most certainly am convinced Apollo is real.
Then you are one of the majority that believes the moon landings occurred, not one of the near 27% that does not.
Correct on both counts?
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A Zygote is a fertilized egg, and Challenger had its final liftoff on January 29th, 1986, and I was born over 9 months after, meaning I wasn't even conceived at the time.
My point was that I wasn't there for Apollo, and I am still in the 18-29 demographic, and I most certainly am convinced Apollo is real.
Then you are one of the majority that believes the moon landings occurred, not one of the near 27% that does not.
Correct on both counts?
Aye.
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I've seen wildly varying poll results, but the majority of polls has hoax belief being a much smaller percentage of the population than that.
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I'm not saying all who were not alive to experience(say maybe 5-7 years old) believe in the conspiracy. Poll results have indicated that about 6-7% of the general population believe in the conspiracy, but when taking age into the analysis it jumps to 29-30% for the under 25 year olds. I'll have to find that poll, because I'm remembering and the mind doesn't remember as well as it used to remember. :)
I quizzed my daughters about this once, when they were arguing with friends about Apollo (their favourite TV series for several years was "From the Earth to the Moon"). I asked them why so many friends thought we did didn't go, the answer was "Because they think it is more interesting and/or cooler to think it was faked".
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I'm not saying all who were not alive to experience(say maybe 5-7 years old) believe in the conspiracy. Poll results have indicated that about 6-7% of the general population believe in the conspiracy, but when taking age into the analysis it jumps to 29-30% for the under 25 year olds. I'll have to find that poll, because I'm remembering and the mind doesn't remember as well as it used to remember. :)
I quizzed my daughters about this once, when they were arguing with friends about Apollo (their favourite TV series for several years was "From the Earth to the Moon"). I asked them why so many friends thought we did didn't go, the answer was "Because they think it is more interesting and/or cooler to think it was faked".
That sounds like Art Linkletter's show Kids Say the Darndest Things!
I've seen wildly varying poll results, but the majority of polls has hoax belief being a much smaller percentage of the population than that.
It depends on how the questions is worded at times. Well I do have a somewhat favorite saying, Figures never lie but liars always figure.
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That clip never gets old "You're coward, a liar and th-(bang)-fffff".
For your enjoyment Baz, so that you can enjoy, and enjoy, and enjoy.....
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/BartPunch_256Color.gif)
No sound, but who cares?
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"Did you get that on camera?" ::)
"Ok lets sue."
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"Did you get that on camera?" ::)
"Ok lets sue."
Oh, he tried, and failed. Judge sent Sibrel packing!
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I'm not saying all who were not alive to experience(say maybe 5-7 years old) believe in the conspiracy. Poll results have indicated that about 6-7% of the general population believe in the conspiracy, but when taking age into the analysis it jumps to 29-30% for the under 25 year olds. I'll have to find that poll, because I'm remembering and the mind doesn't remember as well as it used to remember. :)
I quizzed my daughters about this once, when they were arguing with friends about Apollo (their favourite TV series for several years was "From the Earth to the Moon"). I asked them why so many friends thought we did didn't go, the answer was "Because they think it is more interesting and/or cooler to think it was faked".
That sounds like Art Linkletter's show Kids Say the Darndest Things!
These were 14-15 year-olds, so not little ones where "kids say the darndest things" might be considered cute.. I found it a disturbing insight into the perspective of the age group.
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These were 14-15 year-olds, so not little ones where "kids say the darndest things" might be considered cute.. I found it a disturbing insight into the perspective of the age group.
I was trying to make the situation a little lighter. I agree with you 100%, it saddens me that we have adolescents who are turning away from true science into some of the stupidity like flat earth, moon hoax, rockets don't work in space, the VARB would have killed the Apollo astronauts etc. etc. etc. those were the group that I was focusing in on with the poll.
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These were 14-15 year-olds, so not little ones where "kids say the darndest things" might be considered cute.. I found it a disturbing insight into the perspective of the age group.
I was trying to make the situation a little lighter. I agree with you 100%, it saddens me that we have adolescents who are turning away from true science into some of the stupidity like flat earth, moon hoax, rockets don't work in space, the VARB would have killed the Apollo astronauts etc. etc. etc. those were the group that I was focusing in on with the poll.
And what is scary is that those kids are now in their 20s with degrees..... :O
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These were 14-15 year-olds, so not little ones where "kids say the darndest things" might be considered cute.. I found it a disturbing insight into the perspective of the age group.
I was trying to make the situation a little lighter. I agree with you 100%, it saddens me that we have adolescents who are turning away from true science into some of the stupidity like flat earth, moon hoax, rockets don't work in space, the VARB would have killed the Apollo astronauts etc. etc. etc. those were the group that I was focusing in on with the poll.
And what is scary is that those kids are now in their 20s with degrees..... :O
Yes and posting on you tube? When mankind goes back they will have to eat their words and shut up, but until then ongoing stream of BS. I'm having a discussion with my 34 year old son as this is published.
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These were 14-15 year-olds, so not little ones where "kids say the darndest things" might be considered cute.. I found it a disturbing insight into the perspective of the age group.
I was trying to make the situation a little lighter. I agree with you 100%, it saddens me that we have adolescents who are turning away from true science into some of the stupidity like flat earth, moon hoax, rockets don't work in space, the VARB would have killed the Apollo astronauts etc. etc. etc. those were the group that I was focusing in on with the poll.
And what is scary is that those kids are now in their 20s with degrees..... :O
Yes and posting on you tube? When mankind goes back they will have to eat their words and shut up, but until then ongoing stream of BS. I'm having a discussion with my 34 year old son as this is published.
Sadly, they probably won't.
This is the great advantage that conspiracy theorists have; they can just invent ever more fantastical scenarios and unbelievable allegations out of whole cloth, to account for any observed data that doesn't fit within their distorted worldview.
Even when we go back, if we were to abduct Jarrah White and drag him kicking and screaming onto a rocket to the moon and show him Tranquillity Base, the Fra Mauro Highlands, the Taurus-Littrow Valley or any of the other landing sites, so that he could touch the descent stages, sit in the Lunar Rovers and touch all the equipment left behind, he would just say that is was all recently put there in some secret moon mission just to discredit he and the other hoax believers.
The capacity of conspiracy theorists to deny science and hand-wave away evidence is infinite, as is their level of stupid.
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Fortunately when we go back it will probably be led by India and China and, judging by the comments on space matters from the public of both countries that I have seen they are less likely to invoke the Moon hoax.
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Even when we go back, if we were to abduct Jarrah White and drag him kicking and screaming onto a rocket to the moon and show him Tranquillity Base, the Fra Mauro Highlands, the Taurus-Littrow Valley or any of the other landing sites, so that he could touch the descent stages, sit in the Lunar Rovers and touch all the equipment left behind, he would just say that is was all recently put there in some secret moon mission just to discredit he and the other hoax believers.
The capacity of conspiracy theorists to deny science and hand-wave away evidence is infinite, as is their level of stupid.
You mean that you haven't submitted your "donation" to JW's flight around the moon? ::)
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Sadly, they probably won't.
This is the great advantage that conspiracy theorists have; they can just invent ever more fantastical scenarios and unbelievable allegations out of whole cloth, to account for any observed data that doesn't fit within their distorted worldview.
Even when we go back, if we were to abduct Jarrah White and drag him kicking and screaming onto a rocket to the moon and show him Tranquillity Base, the Fra Mauro Highlands, the Taurus-Littrow Valley or any of the other landing sites, so that he could touch the descent stages, sit in the Lunar Rovers and touch all the equipment left behind, he would just say that is was all recently put there in some secret moon mission just to discredit he and the other hoax believers.
The capacity of conspiracy theorists to deny science and hand-wave away evidence is infinite, as is their level of stupid.
Not forgetting the flight would have been faked in some way too, after all those "Deadly" Van Allen Belts will have fried him.. :D :D
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Sadly, they probably won't.
This is the great advantage that conspiracy theorists have; they can just invent ever more fantastical scenarios and unbelievable allegations out of whole cloth, to account for any observed data that doesn't fit within their distorted worldview.
Even when we go back, if we were to abduct Jarrah White and drag him kicking and screaming onto a rocket to the moon and show him Tranquillity Base, the Fra Mauro Highlands, the Taurus-Littrow Valley or any of the other landing sites, so that he could touch the descent stages, sit in the Lunar Rovers and touch all the equipment left behind, he would just say that is was all recently put there in some secret moon mission just to discredit he and the other hoax believers.
The capacity of conspiracy theorists to deny science and hand-wave away evidence is infinite, as is their level of stupid.
Not forgetting the flight would have been faked in some way too, after all those "Deadly" Van Allen Belts will have fried him.. :D :D
Yes my conversation with my son last night started at that exact point. I tried to do the best That I could to assurre him that was not the real problem for Apollo. But should a major SPE would have been a possible problem. We also discussed orbiting in the VARB at 1000 miles, as scientist visualized in the early 50's. That would have required much better shielding. After that we started the photo "anomalies", the evening went to long.!
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Part of it is simply being young. The attraction of gaudy bits of pseudoscience is greatest for those who haven't seen previous versions prove false. Eventually, the majority will be older and wiser, and not judge ideas based on "wouldn't it be cool if it were true?"
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Honestly, I would have thought it cooler it was true, but I was a space nut as a kid. The idea it was some cheap trick? Just disappointing. If I had one conspiracy theory, it was that the US sabotaged the Russian moon efforts. Of course, back then, there wasn't a lot of information on the program available.
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Well we never actually chatted about Apollo until last night. There wasn't much of the conspiracy stuff going around when he was growing up. It never seemed likely that he would have doubts. I was crestfallen, but at least I have an understanding and hopefully turn him form the "dark side" so to speak.
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Honestly, I would have thought it cooler it was true, but I was a space nut as a kid.
I know. I try hard to see where other people are coming from, even when I disagree with them, but this attitude is utterly beyond my comprehension. Maybe they think real life should be like a movie or TV?
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I know. I try hard to see where other people are coming from, even when I disagree with them, but this attitude is utterly beyond my comprehension. Maybe they think real life should be like a movie or TV?
This how the HB's snare the unsuspecting with the seductive claims. Coupled with the general lack of trust/faith in the "system" can lead to unknowledgeable beliefs. Besides I speculate that a lot of those that voice these beliefs are they themselves seeking ego boosting acknowledgement.
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Honestly, I would have thought it cooler it was true, but I was a space nut as a kid.
I know. I try hard to see where other people are coming from, even when I disagree with them, but this attitude is utterly beyond my comprehension. Maybe they think real life should be like a movie or TV?
That's one of the dark facets of modern entertainment. While you may recognize you're dealing with fiction, the essential cynicism of the premise - that everything is a conspiracy - can be absorbed without realizing it. The same way many young people internalize that the way to romantic success is dogged determination in the face of refusal, and are bewildered when they end up on the wrong end of a restraining order.
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I think its basically a reaction to the 'Love at first sight' trope, which can also be unhealthy.
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I think its basically a reaction to the 'Love at first sight' trope, which can also be unhealthy.
Actually, it seems a lot of younger people now believe in "lust at first sight," where sending a total stranger a text that says "wana *$@#?" will result in a fulfilling sexual encounter. They seem most surprised when it doesn't.
At least proper spelling, grammar and punctuation might improve their chances.
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I think its basically a reaction to the 'Love at first sight' trope, which can also be unhealthy.
Actually, it seems a lot of younger people now believe in "lust at first sight," where sending a total stranger a text that says "wana *$@#?" will result in a fulfilling sexual encounter. They seem most surprised when it doesn't.
At least proper spelling, grammar and punctuation might improve their chances.
Lust at first site indeed. Too bad IRL, it doesn't work that way. But we hope all of our fantasies work out, right?
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You mean that you haven't submitted your "donation" to JW's flight around the moon? ::)
Surely I'm not alone in hoping some mega-rich contributors get wind of this and actually fund it, if for no other reason than giving us an opportunity to turn the tables and claim he hoaxed his own trip. It would be nice to give him a taste of the exasperation guys like Buzz and the other astronauts have to experience when confronted with such audacious stupidity.
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You could put down 100 million to reserve a spot from Space Adventures>
http://www.space.com/7866-moon-tourism-2020-entrepreneurs-predict.html
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Honestly, I would have thought it cooler it was true, but I was a space nut as a kid.
I know. I try hard to see where other people are coming from, even when I disagree with them, but this attitude is utterly beyond my comprehension. Maybe they think real life should be like a movie or TV?
That's one of the dark facets of modern entertainment. While you may recognize you're dealing with fiction, the essential cynicism of the premise - that everything is a conspiracy - can be absorbed without realizing it. The same way many young people internalize that the way to romantic success is dogged determination in the face of refusal, and are bewildered when they end up on the wrong end of a restraining order.
I think you have nailed it.
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Honestly, I would have thought it cooler it was true, but I was a space nut as a kid.
I know. I try hard to see where other people are coming from, even when I disagree with them, but this attitude is utterly beyond my comprehension. Maybe they think real life should be like a movie or TV?
That's one of the dark facets of modern entertainment. While you may recognize you're dealing with fiction, the essential cynicism of the premise - that everything is a conspiracy - can be absorbed without realizing it. The same way many young people internalize that the way to romantic success is dogged determination in the face of refusal, and are bewildered when they end up on the wrong end of a restraining order.
Just as an aside, I wonder whether there might be another factor at play here - the go-getting principle that it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
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Honestly, I would have thought it cooler it was true, but I was a space nut as a kid.
I know. I try hard to see where other people are coming from, even when I disagree with them, but this attitude is utterly beyond my comprehension. Maybe they think real life should be like a movie or TV?
That's one of the dark facets of modern entertainment. While you may recognize you're dealing with fiction, the essential cynicism of the premise - that everything is a conspiracy - can be absorbed without realizing it. The same way many young people internalize that the way to romantic success is dogged determination in the face of refusal, and are bewildered when they end up on the wrong end of a restraining order.
Just as an aside, I wonder whether there might be another factor at play here - the go-getting principle that it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
Boy that didn't work with some of my micro management styles that I have been around.
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I went back to this video this morning, been at it for about 4 hours, a couple of aspects lack a definition to me. at 33:30 he talks about rings on the PLSS and his "research" didn't find any evidence of their existence. Well that took all of a few minutes to disprove. https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/plss02.jpg My question to those more closely associated with the PLSS, what were the rings used Hanging in the LM? Certainly not supporting wires as Jet insinuates.
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I went back to this video this morning, been at it for about 4 hours, a couple of aspects lack a definition to me. at 33:30 he talks about rings on the PLSS and his "research" didn't find any evidence of their existence. Well that took all of a few minutes to disprove. https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/plss02.jpg My question to those more closely associated with the PLSS, what were the rings used Hanging in the LM? Certainly not supporting wires as Jet insinuates.
Barring the fact that this loon claims to be the re-incarnation of the Holy Spirit, those are anchor points for the outer covering IIRC.
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I went back to this video this morning, been at it for about 4 hours, a couple of aspects lack a definition to me. at 33:30 he talks about rings on the PLSS and his "research" didn't find any evidence of their existence. Well that took all of a few minutes to disprove. https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/plss02.jpg My question to those more closely associated with the PLSS, what were the rings used Hanging in the LM? Certainly not supporting wires as Jet insinuates.
Barring the fact that this loon claims to be the re-incarnation of the Holy Spirit, those are anchor points for the outer covering IIRC.
Go to the video at that time, the rings are on the outside, perhaps there is a split were the rings protrude?
My bolding in his opinion
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Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
Any idea where this list is? I'd love to have a copy for my own personal use... Heh.
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Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
Any idea where this list is? I'd love to have a copy for my own personal use... Heh.
A few of them are named here
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/1969/12/moon-landing/moon-rock-text
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The rings may have been used to stow the PLSS in the LM.
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Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
Any idea where this list is? I'd love to have a copy for my own personal use... Heh.
A few of them are named here
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/1969/12/moon-landing/moon-rock-text
Thanks. I also see that a goodly portion of the list is noted in the first posts of this thread. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread... <grrrr>
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I have a copy of that as a physical magazine. Definitely one of my prized possessions.
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Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
Any idea where this list is? I'd love to have a copy for my own personal use... Heh.
A few of them are named here
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/1969/12/moon-landing/moon-rock-text
Thanks. I also see that a goodly portion of the list is noted in the first posts of this thread. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread... <grrrr>
If you have a look at the Lunar Sourcebook site (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/lunar_sourcebook/), the References section has 62 pages of listed published papers.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/lunar_sourcebook/pdf/References.pdf
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Somebody posted a long list of the geologists who had examined the lunar samples and asked the HB to name the individuals he was calling liars. My recollection is that the HB quickly changed the subject.
Any idea where this list is? I'd love to have a copy for my own personal use... Heh.
Oops, forgot to reply to this when first I saw it.
The list is in the Apollo 11 Press Kit (published prior to the mission), pages 220-241.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11prskit.html
I posted the list at the Bad Astronomy Bulletin Board in January 2005,
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?15935-Moon-Rocks-List-of-Investigators-July-1969&highlight=Moon+Rocks+-+List+of+Investigators%2C+July+1969
Then here at ApolloHoax in PeterB's thread "Rocks from the Moon" in July 2005.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/post/9250/thread
Note that there are two consecutive posts with the names, plus details of the scientists' proposed investigations.
Margamatix was the HB. He handwaved the list away, as HB's often do.
If anyone would like a copy of the press kit for word-processors, PM me with email address.
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I have several volumes of the Lunar Science Conference proceedings, chock full of contemporary scientific papers based on the lunar samples from scientists all over the world.
Not the most rivetting of reads, but great for demonstrating that the samples were available to the scientific community and that the data from their analyses were publicly available.
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I have several volumes of the Lunar Science Conference proceedings, chock full of contemporary scientific papers based on the lunar samples from scientists all over the world.
Not the most rivetting of reads, but great for demonstrating that the samples were available to the scientific community and that the data from their analyses were publicly available.
Email them the blunder, maybe he can get an understanding
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I have several volumes of the Lunar Science Conference proceedings, chock full of contemporary scientific papers based on the lunar samples from scientists all over the world.
Not the most rivetting of reads, but great for demonstrating that the samples were available to the scientific community and that the data from their analyses were publicly available.
Email them the blunder, maybe he can get an understanding
The Blunder? An understanding?
Firstly he has to want to understand, and I don't think he does... too far down the HB path not to lose a massive amount of face. His own ego is more important to him than the truth!
Secondly, he has to be capable of understanding, and I don't think he is. If his writings and the commentary of his YT videos are any indication, he cannot think clearly enough to understand.
"I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Samuel Johnson, June 1784
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What he can also want to do is buy hard copies of the conference proceedings to prove his point - like I did.
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I have several volumes of the Lunar Science Conference proceedings, chock full of contemporary scientific papers based on the lunar samples from scientists all over the world.
Not the most rivetting of reads, but great for demonstrating that the samples were available to the scientific community and that the data from their analyses were publicly available.
Email them the blunder, maybe he can get an understanding
The Blunder? An understanding?
Firstly he has to want to understand, and I don't think he does... too far down the HB path not to lose a massive amount of face. His own ego is more important to him than the truth!
Secondly, he has to be capable of understanding, and I don't think he is. If his writings and the commentary of his YT videos are any indication, he cannot think clearly enough to understand.
"I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Samuel Johnson, June 1784
I keep the faith that he will grow up and rethink his stupid associations with the beliefs of Kaysing and/or Renen