ApolloHoax.net
Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: johnbutcher on May 21, 2014, 06:15:10 PM
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I used to read a lot of their stuff. But, over the last 2 years or so, they appear to have turned into a hate site. The racism and bigotry they spew has turned me off. I check it every day now but can't read most of the threads. What happened?
Sloop
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GLP is an incredible place. It must almost be the greatest collection of stupid on the interwebz.
As I said earlier, in another thread...
[spoiler](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/ApolloHoax/moseisleyGLP.jpg)[/spoiler]
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Honestly, I think it's inevitable that conspiracism leads to other kinds of us-versus-them thinking.
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It's...odd.
Science-based thinkers seem to have moved into positions of established personalities, long-term registered users, and friends of the site owners. Apollo hoax threads there look more and more like the same threads at the BAUT (but without the ban hammer).
At the same time, the religious wars are stronger and stronger, as well as a whole bunch of racial stuff -- mostly concentrated in "secret jewish world rulers" and "african americans are animals" (including a weird sub-thread about alien DNA being part of what makes real -- aka european -- humans).
Which means the more interestingly off-the-wall conspiracies are getting lost in the noise. But it still is an intriguing site due to the international flavor. There are a significant number of (usually anonymous) posters who aren't from the english-speaking parts of the world, and it is refreshing to see that kind of global conversation. Even if it does look mostly like a bar brawl.
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A bar brawl.
I guess then I stick my head in and if the brawl is still going on I go elsewhere. It just seems to be a permanent brawl now.
Though I like Dr.Astros threads, usually.
Sloop
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I think its in my profile, but, if not, then here it is.
Qualifications:-
RMN (Registered Mental Nurse) since 1982.
RGN (Registered General Nurse) since 1985.
Nurse Teacher:- psychiatry, since 1990.
Senior Staff Nurse (in Elderly Mental Health) since 1994.
I have qualified in ICU, CCU, HDNU, Trauma and Stroke rehabilitation.
I'm sorry GR for your troubles. But when I read some of the posts written by HB's; I know they are written by
Mentally troubled individuals.
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I think its in my profile, but, if not, then here it is.
Qualifications:-
RMN (Registered Mental Nurse) since 1982.
RGN (Registered General Nurse) since 1985.
Nurse Teacher:- psychiatry, since 1990.
Senior Staff Nurse (in Elderly Mental Health) since 1994.
I have qualified in ICU, CCU, HDNU, Trauma and Stroke rehabilitation.
I'm sorry GR for your troubles. But when I read some of the posts written by HB's; I know they are written by
Mentally troubled individuals.
Very poorly worded post. sorry. meant to say sorry you are troubled about labelling ct's and hb's as having mental health issues. but clearly many do. though they don't necessarily require treatment for same.
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The problem with labelling CTs as having mental health issues is that it is not reasonable or ethical to give a diagnosis or label based just on someone's posts on an internet forum.
Also, such labels are often used as insults, and contribute to a shaming culture of people who do have mental health problems.
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The problem with labelling CTs as having mental health issues is that it is not reasonable or ethical to give a diagnosis or label based just on someone's posts on an internet forum.
Also, such labels are often used as insults, and contribute to a shaming culture of people who do have mental health problems.
In many ways the label of mental illness can be used to excuse truly evil people from responsibility for there evil intent, or at least to not condemn them when appropriate. Throwing around racist conspiracies is not a sign of excusable mental illness, it is indicative of a malevolent intent. There are better ways of describing behaviors without relying on an ill-defined "mental illness" label.
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The problem with labelling CTs as having mental health issues is that it is not reasonable or ethical to give a diagnosis or label based just on someone's posts on an internet forum.
Also, such labels are often used as insults, and contribute to a shaming culture of people who do have mental health problems.
Saying someone has a mental health issue, is not a diagnosis. A diagnosis would entail ascribing a particular mental illness to them and their presentation. Agreed this cannot be done just by reading internet posts. But, exhibiting a certain, repetitive mind set, in the face of evidence to the contrary, indicates an issue.
I was taught not to label people, Labelling, locks you into a way of viewing people that obscures your view of them and can lead to you not seeing their uniqueness that enables you to create a plan of care that maximises their ability to achieve recovery.
Because someone has a mental health issue, does not make them mentally ill.
Nor does it excuse their, physical, behaviour, nor how they treat the world.
Sloop
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As an aside! Look, or worse, try to read and understand, DSM5.
Sloop
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I am familiar with DSM5, thanks.
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As an aside! Look, or worse, try to read and understand, DSM5.
Sloop
I'm sorry, what? What do you mean by 'or worse try and read and understand'? Do you realise how incredibly patronising that sounds, especially when directed to someone you do not actually know. I can assure you Andromeda has already done just what you suggest.
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I am familiar with DSM5, thanks.
Wow! I found it, impenetrable and obscure, and I do this for a living!
How did you like it?
By the way I thought you were an astronomer. Did I get it that wrong?
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I just don't get it.
I don't get why people seem to be allowed to have an opinion on everything; science, politics, religion, health, education etc, but as soon they make any mention of "mental" health, the PC brigade pop their heads up, wagging their fingers.
I may not be a mental health professional, but I know that when someone is acting batshit crazy; when they have been lying over and over despite being publicly shown that they are lying, and they continue to lie; when they show that they are utterly obsessed with the idea that there are Government / Bilderberg / Illumainati / Freemason / Bohemian Grove / Reptilian / Opus Dei / Trilateral / Skull&Bones (delete as applicable) conspiracies around every corner, that there is something going on between their ears (even though I may not know what), just as I know that when I see a person walking down the street on an artificial leg, I know they have a leg missing (even though I may not know why).
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I am familiar with DSM5, thanks.
Wow! I found it, impenetrable and obscure, and I do this for a living!
How did you like it?
By the way I thought you were an astronomer. Did I get it that wrong?
I'm not a huge fan. It has its uses but a variety of limitations.
I'd prefer not to go into detail of my qualifications and experience in public. I do have degrees in physics and astrophysics, I also have/do other things.
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I just don't get it.
I don't get why people seem to be allowed to have an opinion on everything; science, politics, religion, health, education etc, but as soon they make any mention of "mental" health, the PC brigade pop their heads up, wagging their fingers.
It's not about "the PC brigade...wagging their fingers" (wow, rude!) - it's about knowing that words and labels mean things and that needs to be given some degree of respect. When a HB comes on here using technical engineering/physics etc terms and getting them wrong or showing lack of understanding, they are corrected and called to account. It's exactly the same thing.
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I just don't get it.
I don't get why people seem to be allowed to have an opinion on everything; science, politics, religion, health, education etc, but as soon they make any mention of "mental" health, the PC brigade pop their heads up, wagging their fingers.
It has nothing to do with a 'PC brigade'. It has to do with mental health being a really rather important and socially sensitive issue which is treated far to cavalierly by people who use phrases like 'batshit crazy' as if it is an acceptable descriptor of someone who may be suffering a really rather unpleasant illness. It is not about opinions any more than people are allowed to have 'opinions' on the way the Apollo spacecraft works.
that there is something going on between their ears (even though I may not know what), just as I know that when I see a person walking down the street on an artificial leg, I know they have a leg missing (even though I may not know why).
There may iondeed be 'something' going on, but the point is you and no-one else on the forum knows what that something might be, and speculating about it publicly is, in my view, pretty distasteful. Having mental health issues is still horribly stigmatised and badly misunderstood. It's a sensitive issue, treated incredibly insensitively by a large slice of the population.
What I don't get, for my part. is why people who get called on this become so defensive and abrasive.
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As an aside! Look, or worse, try to read and understand, DSM5.
Sloop
I'm sorry, what? What do you mean by 'or worse try and read and understand'? Do you realise how incredibly patronising that sounds, especially when directed to someone you do not actually know. I can assure you Andromeda has already done just what you suggest.
I mean, just read the manual! It is not clear, even psychiatry professionals have issues with it. I've been doing this and teaching it for 35 years now. Read my resume above.
By the way my credentials are easily checked on the UK NMC website. My teaching qualifications are not recordable, but they are real.
No slight to Andromeda was meant by my previous post.
sloop
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I just don't get it.
I don't get why people seem to be allowed to have an opinion on everything; science, politics, religion, health, education etc, but as soon they make any mention of "mental" health, the PC brigade pop their heads up, wagging their fingers.
I may not be a mental health professional, but I know that when someone is acting batshit crazy; when they have been lying over and over despite being publicly shown that they are lying, and they continue to lie; when they show that they are utterly obsessed with the idea that there are Government / Bilderberg / Illumainati / Freemason / Bohemian Grove / Reptilian / Opus Dei / Trilateral / Skull&Bones (delete as applicable) conspiracies around every corner, that there is something going on between their ears (even though I may not know what), just as I know that when I see a person walking down the street on an artificial leg, I know they have a leg missing (even though I may not know why).
I am a mental health professional. Look up my qualifications.
Some people can appear, batshit crazy, but, really theyr'e not. Being a ct or ahb isn't, per se, crazy, many of these people live a normal life. Only accessing this mode of thinking when moved into this area. They do not qualify as mentally ill.
It's why we assess people, over a period of time. We do not ascribe mental illness on the basis of initial presentation. Nor on the report of neighbours, friends or community nurses. But on what we find as we assess them in the ward. Even then we can be wrong. Dealing with people, we get it wrong too often!
sloop
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It's not about "the PC brigade...wagging their fingers" (wow, rude!) - it's about knowing that words and labels mean things and that needs to be given some degree of respect. When a HB comes on here using technical engineering/physics etc terms and getting them wrong or showing lack of understanding, they are corrected and called to account. It's exactly the same thing.
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words and labels do mean things. But, words and labels used as jargon between professionals mean something else. I cannot talk to my colleagues without jargon. It's a shorthand for communicating concepts, without the verbal equivalent of wall of text.
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I am getting very frustrated with the behaviour of some of the members of this forum, and this thread is pretty much the best demonstration of why. There is no need for the complete lack of civility that I have seen in this thread. And let me be clear that neither side is looking all that good to me right now.
1) Speculating about someone else's mental health is rude and unfair. I especially don't approve of derogatory labels like "batshit crazy". That will end now, or I will start moderating you as strictly as I would a rude conspiracy theorist. I have been very lenient with the non-CT members of the forum, and it appears that some of you are starting to feel like you are above the rules. If you appreciate the freedom I have given you here then don't force me into a position where I have to moderate you.
People with mental health issues often don't seek help due to the negative stigma associated with it. The only way that will change is if we all become more understanding and caring. Shaming people only hurts us all because they hide their issues instead of getting help.
2) As much as I disapprove of the behaviour in #1, jumping down someone's throat for expressing their opinion is almost as bad. While I don't approve of the way Smartcooky expressed it, I do agree that some people here are too quick to attack you if you express an opinion about mental health that they disagree with. It does seem like people are being told that they aren't allowed to have or express an opinion on the matter unless they are either a mental health professional or have personally experienced mental health issues. I disagree with that. People are allowed to have opinions (even wrong ones) and should not be attacked for expressing them. I will not moderate or punish people for expressing their opinions politely.
I have gone in and out of depression since I was a teenager, and I have serious confidence and social anxiety issues. So believe me when I say I can sympathize, and I understand it is way more complicated than people who don't suffer from these problems realize. It doesn't make sense that someone like Robin Williams who appeared so happy on the outside would be depressed and suicidal on the inside. I don't have a single reason to point to for my depression. I can't just decide to smile more and be happy. I can't explain why I was the least depressed right at a time when I had every right to be... like after my dad died in 2006. It doesn't make sense to me, so I don't expect others to understand it. But I still think they are entitled to an opinion and they are free to express it here as long as they are polite.
3) I do agree that saying "As an aside! Look, or worse, try to read and understand, DSM5." can come across as condescending and rude... but I can also see how it might not have been intended that way. It could also mean "Reading, never mind understanding, DSM5 is very difficult no matter who you are." So please, don't automatically assume someone was intending to be rude. Intending it as an insult would be something that would force me to have to moderate him, so I hope that is not how he meant it.
4) People are rude. We discuss controversial issues here that can make people angry, and that is eventually going to lead to some rudeness. But if I banned everyone who was ever rude in this forum there would be no one left (not even me). So please, as difficult as it might be, I'm asking is that you try to be more tolerant of rudeness. If that is something you feel you can't handle then this really isn't the right forum for you. This will never be a rudeness free zone because I don't have that kind of control over people.
If someone else irritates you then please take a step away from the forum for a while. I can't always tell when people are upsetting you... only you can see it and judge whether it is too much for you. So please, if someone is bothering you... step away.
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I agree LO, and I unreservedly apologise for any offence given to anyone here. I have always been a "speak your mind" person; I realise that sometimes rubs people up the wrong way so I could have been a little more thoughtful how I expressed my views.
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I apologise to everyone to whom my posts have appeared to be rude or condescending. They were never meant to be taken as such. At least one post was very badly worded and I thought I had corrected it.
L.O.
"Reading, never mind understanding, DSM5 is very difficult no matter who you are"
is what I meant, but apparently failed to express.
One reason I don't post a lot is the very poor way that this is of communicating. Debating face to face allows for nuances in communication that just don't come over in posts.
sloop
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One reason I don't post a lot is the very poor way that this is of communicating. Debating face to face allows for nuances in communication that just don't come over in posts.
sloop
While I agree with this, the fact is that HBs, for the most part, cannot debate face to face without the umbilical connection to Googleversity. This basically leaves forums like this one as the only places where any kind of sensible debate is possible.
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googleversity!
sloop