Author Topic: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.  (Read 487825 times)

Online Zakalwe

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1005 on: September 04, 2015, 12:56:47 PM »
Who else but Americans matter?

Yes, and I wish they would identify themselves so I can ignore them. Which American CIA controlled country are you from?

And in the same breath he posts this:

I'm not an anti-Semite, Nazi, skin-head or racist. If they appeared I would expect you to ban them.
::) ::) ::) ::)



I'm seeing a ban or a flounce in your short-term future Mr Baker.....
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1006 on: September 04, 2015, 12:59:06 PM »


I'm seeing a ban or a flounce in your short-term future Mr Baker.....

Hasn't that already occurred several times in this thread?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Online Zakalwe

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1007 on: September 04, 2015, 01:00:25 PM »

I've never heard of the Gallileo Defense


The ever-growing list of things that you are ignorant of gets another addition.


I've never heard of the Gallileo Defense but you don't have to be right to invoke the Scientific Method.
The Scientific Method is the solution to the Apollo controversy today on Earth.

Says the guy that has steadfastly refused acknowledge the evidence put under his nose.

Unfortunately and very strangely, I'm the only one advocating it while the rest of you desperately grovel in subjective metaphysics.

Says the guy that retreats into solipism in an attempt to handwave away evidence.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Cat Not Included

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1008 on: September 04, 2015, 01:03:28 PM »
While I realize the likely outcome of this...

Neil, would you please explain what, in your world, "proof" means? What is your definition of proof? How does it differ from evidence?
The quote "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" very clearly predates personal computers.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1009 on: September 04, 2015, 01:06:30 PM »
Neil, please stop using words and concepts you don't understand - especially around those of us who do.  It's most vexing.  ;)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Allan F

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1010 on: September 04, 2015, 01:06:57 PM »
To invoke the Gallileo defence, you have to be right, you know.

I've never heard of the Gallileo Defense but you don't have to be right to invoke the Scientific Method.
The Scientific Method is the solution to the Apollo controversy today on Earth.
Unfortunately and very strangely, I'm the only one advocating it while the rest of you desperately grovel in subjective metaphysics.

Which controversy is that? The one in your head?  The world as a whole has no controversy with the Apollo moon programme - or any space endeavour for that matter. You aren'tusing any kind of scientific method - just by waving your arms and saying "It could be faked" is in no way scientific. Also, looking away from the already performed tests and practical applications of the unit you have chosen as your sacrifical lamb, is in no way scientific. It is more superstition. And wishful thinking. And plain old stupidity. How can you even think somebody will take your seriously about your 911-claims when they read about this nonsense?
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Allan F

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1011 on: September 04, 2015, 01:08:47 PM »
Neil, what is the difference between a fairly good vacuum as can be created here on Earth and the vacuum of space?  What forces are noticeably different? And how much different?

Neil - can you answer this?

No? I didn't think so.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1012 on: September 04, 2015, 01:13:44 PM »
I'm the only one advocating it while the rest of you desperately grovel in subjective metaphysics.

Phase diagrams are not subjective metaphysics, they are quantitative physics. I asked you to look at one to demonstrate to yourself how ludicrous your position is regarding the vacuum regime and the effects of the lowering of pressure on sublimation.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 01:15:57 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Neil Baker

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1013 on: September 04, 2015, 01:16:00 PM »
While I realize the likely outcome of this...

Neil, would you please explain what, in your world, "proof" means? What is your definition of proof? How does it differ from evidence?

Proof is truth.
Evidence is belief.

Offline Ishkabibble

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1014 on: September 04, 2015, 01:16:34 PM »
Proof is evidence.

But is evidence proof?
Never.

Wrong.

Evidence is always proof. The more of it, the more certain it is.

I am firmly convinced that you have a serious mental illness. I am further convinced that your mental illness makes you a danger to others.

I am even further convinced that you are not an engineer, nor have you ever had any service in the military. Solely because of your own statements on this forum, I am absolutely and totally convinced that any documentation of your claim to have a degree or any education in engineering, or any presentation of a DD-214 would be forged. It is impossible for you to prove this to my satisfaction.

You are willfully, intentionally, and pathologically a liar. Your opinions are worthless when compared to documented and verified evidence.

You should be forcibly committed to a mental institution.
You don't "believe" that the lunar landings happened. You either understand the science or you don't.

If the lessons of history teach us any one thing, it is that no one learns the lessons that history teaches...

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1015 on: September 04, 2015, 01:20:08 PM »
Accumulation of evidence is never a substitute for proof.

Solipsist.  You were convicted on an accumulation of evidence that was not tantamount to proof, but simply an accumulation beyond reasonable doubt.

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The dispute here is that I say there's a demonstration that can be performed to PROVE whether or not Apollo was a hoax.

And it has been belabored for nearly 70 pages that your proposal is unnecessary, unreasonable, capricious, immoral, burdensome, and non-probative under your own standards of proof.  Your only putative reason for suggesting Apollo was hoaxed is your uninformed, denialist obsession over a well-understood chunk of metal no larger than a carton of cigarettes.  Your stated reason for it is your ongoing crusade over an irrelevant conspiracy theory, in which you hope to vindicate your ego.  None of that creates any sort of legitimate controversy.

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It focuses on the evidence of an anomaly indicated by a conspicuous absence of information about spacesuits with ice sublimators.

Not an anomaly, but a condition that exists solely in your imagination.

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Rather than a support for the Scientific Method, I've gotten beaucoup unexepected arguments ranging from morality to trumped up costs...

You misrepresent the morality argument and sidestep the cost argument.  They do not go away simply because you don't feel like looking at them.  In fact the cost argument was your affirmative claim.  You say the costs associated with your proposed inspection would be so minimal as to fail as a reasonable objection to your proposal.  Yet when those actual costs are shown to you, you go stubbornly silent.  This is because you are willfully ignorant of what your test entails.

Nothing in your argument remotely satisfies the scientific method.  On the contrary, you have completely ignored contrary evidence produced according to the scientific method and accepted as such by the scientific community, with no justification beyond "I don't believe it."  You may allude to the capitalized "Scientific Method" all you want and beg the notion that your test is required by it.  But none of your argumentation here is even remotely compatible with scientific methodology.  Specifically, you do not get to claim that tests you do not personally witness are, by that factor, globally scientifically invalid.

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Galileo begged his inquisitors to peer through his telescope to KNOW the truth.
I'm no Galileo...

Expressly not.  You've been invited to perform exactly the same observation regarding current space operations and you refuse.  You are the anti-Galileo.  If we are to apply your methods to Galileo, his critics would simply say the Jovian moons must all be balloons.

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but I'm saying let's have NASA demonstrate the spacesuits with sublimators in a high vacuum chamber on Earth duplicating environmental conditions of orbit so we too can KNOW the TRUTH rather than having to believe a faith-based space program.

Repeating your proposal ad nauseam does not negate the prior 70 pages.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1016 on: September 04, 2015, 01:22:18 PM »
Proof is truth.
Evidence is belief.

No, this is just pseudo-philosophy handwaving.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Apollo 957

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1017 on: September 04, 2015, 01:32:33 PM »
To invoke the Gallileo defence, you have to be right, you know.

I've never heard of the Gallileo Defense but you don't have to be right to invoke the Scientific Method.
The Scientific Method is the solution to the Apollo controversy today on Earth.
Unfortunately and very strangely, I'm the only one advocating it while the rest of you desperately grovel in subjective metaphysics.

The Scientific Method can be applied to your own observations of the ISS to determine whether or not it's an 'inflatable'. Then you will KNOW something about it.

I detailed the method earlier, but there's no sign of you being willing to adopt it.

Offline Neil Baker

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1018 on: September 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM »

You should be forcibly committed to a mental institution.

I have been. Twice.
The first time for inciting a strike demanding an Independent, fully funded and fully empowered 9-11 Investigation and the second time for breaking a window demanding an Independent, fully funded and fully empowered 9-11 Investigation.
I've been evaluated by four psychiatrists and two psychologists.
All reached the same diagnosis, no mental illness, no personality disorders, no required medication.
One of the psychiatrist's reports stated that he thought I was a bit narcissistic but then added, "but these days, who isn't?"
I don't think most could pass the test.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #1019 on: September 04, 2015, 01:37:16 PM »
This thread follows the same pattern as most CT threads.  What at first sight is an innocent discussion becomes a gish gallop of contradicting statements, spirals into the bizarre, insults are passed. the ignored ones become sarcastic, extreme views are expressed, challenges are made to LO (at announcements thread) as though the OP is demanding a ban to escape.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch