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Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ranb on October 16, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
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I was reading a bit on Wikipedia and other sites about future American space travel vehicles and am a bit confused about what route we are taking now since Constellation was canceled and Orion was scaled back. How are we going to put men and women back in space and when? Thanks.
Ranb
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I was reading a bit on Wikipedia and other sites about future American space travel vehicles and am a bit confused about what route we are taking now since Constellation was canceled and Orion was scaled back. How are we going to put men and women back in space and when? Thanks.
At the moment, the answer looks like DragonRider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_(spacecraft)#NASA_Commercial_Crew_Development_program). The uncrewed Dragon is flying now and could be rigged into a manned vehicle if we were desperate enough. The real manned version is considerably more than a Dragon with seats and air filters though, and is expected to first fly with a crew in 2015.
Boeing has their CST-100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CST-100), which can launch on the Atlas V, Delta IV, and Falcon 9. First launches will be on the Atlas V, but it is considerably more expensive than the Falcon 9. (The Delta IV is even more expensive.) Like DragonRider, it's to be operational in 2015, and its capabilities are similar. I don't see much reason to choose it unless either Falcon 9 or DragonRider turns out to have issues, but that very well may happen.
Sierra Nevada is working on the Dream Chaser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Chaser_(spacecraft)), which again uses the Atlas V as a launcher, but could potentially use others. It's to make manned flights in 2016, but is a lot more complex and needs a runway to land on. I think it's more likely to experience long development delays and be more expensive to fly than the others, but its shiny futuristic sci-fi spaceship looks make it popular with certain people.
Blue Origin's working on...something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Origin#Space_Vehicle). It's to use the Atlas V at first, and their own reusable booster system later on. They don't talk much about it.
The Orion MPCV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)) is to be launched on the SLS, a ridiculously expensive politically-motivated launch system that wouldn't enter regular operation until 2022 and would only be able to launch once a year, though it's doubtful that even that launch rate would fit in the budget. More realistically, the SLS will soon suffer the same fate as Constellation, leaving the MPCV without a launcher. An "Orion Lite" has been proposed that would fit on an Atlas V or Falcon 9.
ATK's Liberty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_(rocket)) is/was an attempt to resurrect the Ares I. Ares I first stage glued to bits of an Ariane 5 as a second stage. They added an Orion-derived capsule of their own design when nobody wanted to fly their own spacecraft on it, and claimed they'd make manned flights by 2015. NASA didn't chose to fund Liberty, and ATK has said they were "moving on".
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...The Orion MPCV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)) is to be launched on the SLS, a ridiculously expensive politically-motivated launch system that wouldn't enter regular operation until 2022 and would only be able to launch once a year, though it's doubtful that even that launch rate would fit in the budget. More realistically, the SLS will soon suffer the same fate as Constellation, leaving the MPCV without a launcher. An "Orion Lite" has been proposed that would fit on an Atlas V or Falcon 9...
Hmmm, a spaceship made of pork...Well, pigs might fly. ;)
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They have! Didn't you ever watch The Muppet Show?
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...The Orion MPCV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(spacecraft)) is to be launched on the SLS, a ridiculously expensive politically-motivated launch system that wouldn't enter regular operation until 2022 and would only be able to launch once a year, though it's doubtful that even that launch rate would fit in the budget. More realistically, the SLS will soon suffer the same fate as Constellation, leaving the MPCV without a launcher. An "Orion Lite" has been proposed that would fit on an Atlas V or Falcon 9...
Hmmm, a spaceship made of pork...Well, pigs might fly. ;)
Must be some kind of political "in-joke" (http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o35/smartcooky99/my%20smileys/headscratch.gif)
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Hmmm, a spaceship made of pork...Well, pigs might fly. ;)
Must be some kind of political "in-joke" (http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o35/smartcooky99/my%20smileys/headscratch.gif)
No, it's a reference to the American TV show The Muppet Show. It had a recurring sketch called Pigs In Space.
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Well, and the term "pork" for "wasteful government spending," surely.
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Well, and the term "pork" for "wasteful government spending," surely.
Yes, I was working from cjameshuff's description of the Orion as "...ridiculously expensive politically-motivated..." The slang term for that is 'pork barrelling'. It's an American term, but I've heard it used occasionally in Australia.
And I assume you're familiar with the dismissive expression "When pigs fly"?
It just made sense to put the two together...
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Well, and the term "pork" for "wasteful government spending," surely.
Right. Must be an "Americanism"; its not a slang term I have ever heard
In this country, "porky" (or "porkie" can mean a couple of things)
a. overweight, obese, fat etc - "he looks a bit porky in that suit"
b. a lie, usually a white lie (from Cockney rhyming slang "Pork Pies") - "You've been telling porkies again!!!"
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I guess it is an Americanism. I'm surprised you don't use it, as I can't imagine the concept isn't universal, and starting especially with WW2 there has been an enormous interchange of slang and idioms between American and British English. Do you have another term for the same thing?
We sometimes also use your meaning (a) (obese) but I have never heard your meaning (b), probably because it is Cockney rhyming slang.
That was one of the things that tripped me up on my first visit to the UK. I didn't have any problem with my hosts (who were all university professors and students) but while riding buses and the Underground I had somewhat greater difficulty communicating with the locals than I had expected...
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That's possibly down to our different systems of representative governance - an MP here doesn't quite have the same opportunities for currying electoral favour by diverting government spending to their constituency as a Senator may have to their State.
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Not just Senators, but Representatives too. My own congressman was the now-infamous Duke Cunningham, a former Vietnam-era fighter pilot, right-wing military hawk and ridiculously gung-ho advocate of unlimited defense spending. We found out why; he used his defense committee "earmarks" to direct many millions of dollars of unnecessary contracts to a few companies in his district in exchange for bribes. He was discovered when he sold his home for a hugely inflated value to a front for one of the companies and a newspaper reporter noticed.
He is now serving 8-some years in federal prison. I think his sentence might be ending soon.
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That's sad - I'd only heard of him as the only US Navy fighter 'ace' in Vietnam.
Shows that bravery and probity don't always go together, I suppose...
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Cunningham was incredibly blatant about it, too. One of the items of evidence was a "menu" of bribes, written on Congressional letterhead, showing the payments required for each "service rendered". The evidence was so overwhelming that he didn't try to fight it, he pled guilty.
In total he collected several million bucks of bribes before being caught. Last I heard it was the largest (known) dollar total for Congressional bribery ever.
The amazing thing is that when he was replaced, the voters still went Republican. That's how conservative this area is.
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Cunningham was incredibly blatant about it, too. One of the items of evidence was a "menu" of bribes, written on Congressional letterhead, showing the payments required for each "service rendered". The evidence was so overwhelming that he didn't try to fight it, he pled guilty.
In total he collected several million bucks of bribes before being caught. Last I heard it was the largest (known) dollar total for Congressional bribery ever.
The amazing thing is that when he was replaced, the voters still went Republican. That's how conservative this area is.
Didn't something like that happen with the SRBs?
Lochkeed's SRB design was for a single piece rocket but thanks to some shifty political moves by a Senator from Utah, the SRB's contract was awarded to Thiokol, who won the bid despite being the NASA's 4th choice by a considerable margin.
The consequences were that since they had to be transported all the way from Utah to Florida, the SRB's couldn't be made in one piece, leading to the requirement for the field joint (poorly designed) and ultimately leading to the catastrophic failure of STS51-L
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There's less opportunity for individual MPs to do pork barrel politics, but plenty of opportunities for the government itself. Since the government is made up of MPs, certain constituencies tend to benefit a bit. But also the marginal seats too.
A particularly egregious example was the Humber Bridge which then PM Harold Wilson got his government to sanction in order to win a by-election in an affected seat.
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There's less opportunity for individual MPs to do pork barrel politics, but plenty of opportunities for the government itself. Since the government is made up of MPs, certain constituencies tend to benefit a bit. But also the marginal seats too.
A particularly egregious example was the Humber Bridge which then PM Harold Wilson got his government to sanction in order to win a by-election in an affected seat.
You may remember the thread I started on the old board about the 2010 Australian federal election. In that, I mentioned that both major parties make most of their spending promises in marginal electorates. In many cases they're happy to not bother with spending much in their own safe electorates, because their opinion is that those seats are wrapped up anyway.
Most times this works, but every so often an independent takes a safe politician by surprise.