Hi Everyone,
First off, Mako88sb asks what it will take to convince me the Apollo missions were legit. To be clear, I am not 100 percent convinced they were hoaxed. As I have pointed out in the past, I believe the visuals, ie photos and films were faked. I am confident in my mind they were faked (and I am pretty certain of who some of the individuals that were involved). But fake photos don't necessarily mean the missions were faked. My stance currently is the photos/films are fake but I am unsure whether the missions actually took place. It is a bit of a stupid stance given if the pictures were faked, odds are the missions were faked too. But I have doubts. Some of the answers on this forum, for instance, have at least shown a plausibility of some things I thought were dubious. I think what is important here, people need to respect the thoughts of others, how much you may disagree with them. As far as I know, no one has a monopoly on truth.
<snip for brevity>
Hi bknight,
This will take a bunch of posts to lay out my thoughts.
Lets start first with who might have been involved in creating the fake visuals.
Hi bknight,
This will take a bunch of posts to lay out my thoughts.
Lets start first with who might have been involved in creating the fake visuals. The easiest way is to start at the beginning. And that is with the Von Braun narrated Footprints on the Moon feature length Apollo 11 documentary. It was issued mere weeks after the completion of the mission and included all the (DAC) films and non public access to the mission process including Von Braun. So it stands to reason, if one believes the mission footage is fake, whoever put this documentary together, which was released a few weeks later, was more than likely involved in creating fake visuals also.
This is where it gets interesting. When you look at the film credits, the main principals behind the film do not seem to exist. Barry Coe and Bill Gibson, the producer and director have never produced or directed anything before or since. Very odd for a film documenting perhaps the greatest achievement for man ever. Bill Gibson's history seems nonexistent (although his name was famously named checked in another movie, more on that later) There was a Barry Coe actor at the time. Mainly a B actor who was known mostly as the "Mr Goodwrench Guy" in commercials. He would have been 33 years old at the time of the documentary. Interestingly, his first credited acting role was in a movie called On the Threshold of Space. (they don't make it to space) He played the communications director. Now this "Foootprints" Barry Coe is the producer telling (communicating) the story of Apollo 11. Odd again. So, in short, NASA has handed over the story of Apollo 11, with complete access to classified material, to a producer and director that don't seem to exist and have never produced or directed anything before or since.
While there seems to be no history for the producer and director, there is one principal that does have a history that can be traced. His name was Robert S. Scott and he wrote the documentary. At the time, he was second in command at the United States Information Agency. This was the propaganda arm of the CIA. Prior to that, he ran the Washington office for the CIA led Aerospace Corp. And before retiring in the mid 70's, he was in charge of audiovisuals for the entire US Defense Department. So given NASA is an independent agency, the question that arises, why is this guy involved? And for what purpose? And if he is CIA, who are these other "nonexistent" guys working along side him. The greatest achievement for mankind, and NASA has turned over the documentation of this event to some nameless/faceless guys with a CIA guy in tow? Something doesn't add up. Here is an obit for Robert S. Scott, it lists some of his tenures
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2004/12/16/robert-s-scott-federal-aud/df45a629-5121-4644-971a-722d8d2d7d68/?noredirect=on
That's all for today. I got to sleep.
Hi bknight,
This will take a bunch of posts to lay out my thoughts.
Lets start first with who might have been involved in creating the fake visuals.
No, let's start with the question you were asked, which is what your evidence is that the visuals were actually faked in the first place. Trying to immediately divert the discussion to a debate on who might have done it and why is a blatantly transparent attempt to avoid getting yourself pinned into matter of fact that you have demonstrated over and over again you are incapable of actually discussiing rationally. It's the equivalent of trying to convict me by proving I have the means and motive to commit murder without showing I have actually killed anyone. That wouldn't get through a court, and your tactics won't stand up here.
I repeat the original question: what is your evidence that the visuals were faked? Not who might have done it and why, that they were in fact faked.
Lets start first with who might have been involved in creating the fake visuals.
bknight asked me to show who did it and the visuals that were faked. He said "you do nothing to prove the visuals were faked, nor who you are pretty certain who did the faking."
Why should I get banned? I am answering what he asked.
Hi Smartcooky,
bknight asked me to show who did it and the visuals that were faked.
He said "you do nothing to prove the visuals were faked, nor who you are pretty certain who did the faking."
Why should I get banned? I am answering what he asked.
I will keep the "who did it" part brief and then move on to to the images. I will finish up the "who did it part" later today. (I can't right now). Then move to the visual evidence.
<snip>
What is your evidence of visual fakery? What have you done in your life to provide you with the necessary skills to make the claim? In my mind the visual story has been debunked long before I ever joined this group. I have watched and learned not to be taken into the rabbit hole in which some CT's seem to have slipped, But regale me of your expertise in this area.
Let's keep it simple - pick a single image from the Apollo archive that you think has been faked, post it here, and explain what specific elements of that specific image lead you to believe that it's fake. Explain how you eliminated possible explanations based on exposure, lens flare, focal length, illumination, terrain, perspective, etc.
Let's keep it simple - pick a single image from the Apollo archive that you think has been faked, post it here, and explain what specific elements of that specific image lead you to believe that it's fake. Explain how you eliminated possible explanations based on exposure, lens flare, focal length, illumination, terrain, perspective, etc.I'm sorry to be the pessimist again, I promise I'm not usually so gloomy, but I don't believe he has any specific elements. Granted this is just my speculation, but based on my experiences with people like JR Knowing, somebody told him they were fake, and he accepted that statement based on whatever snake oil was used in his particular case.
I'm sorry to be the pessimist again, I promise I'm not usually so gloomy, but I don't believe he has any specific elements. Granted this is just my speculation, but based on my experiences with people like JR Knowing, somebody told him they were fake, and he accepted that statement based on whatever snake oil was used in his particular case.
He is likely feeling simultaneously disappointed that nobody here responded as he did to the insinuations about the CIA creating the Apollo documentation, and smugly superior that he can clearly see things that others are simply blind to recognize. Facts aren't necessary for someone who is able to put the pieces together with a transcendent insight.
But there is little documentation or rational ...
Doesn't sound very logical. Does it?
But what is known, and makes a lot more sense...
...but he has been around and involved with certain individuals who I believe might have been involved.
Of course, some have pointed to Kubrick
I think they are on the right path but ultimately I think they are incorrect
Yes, I believe The Shining was used to tell the 'Apollo story'.
I, on the other hand, believe he is ...
So why do I believe this?
As many have commented,
...they can find no reason
Any guesses who worked under him?
What are the odds?
I would say what a small world. Wouldn't you?
In any event, there are many things in the Shining (and elsewhere) that support my theory. I won't 'bore' you with the details.There is nothing in the Shining (or elsewhere) that will support your theory, however, if there were, the details are exactly what is required of you. Try again and don't include any of the types of things that I pulled out for you above.
Hi Everyone,{Irrelevant Gish gallop snipped}
Gillianren, Yes there was a Bill Gibson in the military that has loosely been credited with being involved. But there is little documentation or rational why he had any involvement at the time with NASA.
Now, answer the questions....
► What is your best evidence that any part of the Apollo photographic record was faked?
► What are you qualifications or experiences or unique skills that you consider allow you to make these determinations?
Everything else you post will either be ignored or treated like this post until you answer these questions.
To be fair, Jay, my point was that his argument was full of holes even if you accepted it as relevant. Which I specifically don't.
Yes people often cite that photo as proof of hoax. I am not one of them.
Name of the island? Wild Goose. Name of the road? “Going to the sun” road. Apollo was the God of what? Sun. Wild goose chase means? “Hopeless pursuit of something unattainable “. What do you think he was trying to say?Perhaps most importantly, why do you believe that any of this, in any way, satisfies the instruction to answer either of the two questions that you were supposed to answer?
The string board routine may work with other conspiracy theorists, but it will not work here. I am reminded Justice League Unlimited's version of The Question, only without the heroism.
"The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called 'aglets'. Their true purpose is sinister."
Evidence, please.
Hi jfb,
Yes people often cite that photo as proof of hoax. I am not one of them. Yes he is lit up in the shadow and there is a glare of the back of his boot. But I think there are (at least) plausible non hoax reasons for that.
As I have pointed out in the past, I believe the visuals, ie photos and films were faked. I am confident in my mind they were faked (and I am pretty certain of who some of the individuals that were involved).
I don’t want to get deep into it because I will get “moderated”.
Now, answer the questions....
► What is your best evidence that any part of the Apollo photographic record was faked?
► What are you qualifications or experiences or unique skills that you consider allow you to make these determinations?
Everything else you post will either be ignored or treated like this post until you answer these questions.
Hi jfb,
Yes people often cite that photo as proof of hoax. I am not one of them. Yes he is lit up in the shadow and there is a glare of the back of his boot. But I think there are (at least) plausible non hoax reasons for that.
Gillenren, with all due respect, Kubrick turned King’s book upside down. I don’t want to get deep into it because I will get “moderated”. But just check the first scene of Kubrick’s movie. It is not in the book. It is a 3 minute scene. Kubrick was in England (afraid of flying) but he had a crew fly over an island and mountain road in Montana. Name of the island? Wild Goose. Name of the road? “Going to the sun” road. Apollo was the God of what? Sun. Wild goose chase means? “Hopeless pursuit of something unattainable “. What do you think he was trying to say?
Hi jfb,
Yes people often cite that photo as proof of hoax. I am not one of them. Yes he is lit up in the shadow and there is a glare of the back of his boot. But I think there are (at least) plausible non hoax reasons for that.
Gillenren, with all due respect, Kubrick turned King’s book upside down. I don’t want to get deep into it because I will get “moderated”. But just check the first scene of Kubrick’s movie. It is not in the book. It is a 3 minute scene. Kubrick was in England (afraid of flying) but he had a crew fly over an island and mountain road in Montana. Name of the island? Wild Goose. Name of the road? “Going to the sun” road. Apollo was the God of what? Sun. Wild goose chase means? “Hopeless pursuit of something unattainable “. What do you think he was trying to say?
Another island nearby is called Thunderbird - that's a Saturn V. Also visible is Red Eagle mountain - the Eagle has landed!
Hi jfb,
Yes people often cite that photo as proof of hoax. I am not one of them. Yes he is lit up in the shadow and there is a glare of the back of his boot. But I think there are (at least) plausible non hoax reasons for that.
Gillenren, with all due respect, Kubrick turned King’s book upside down. I don’t want to get deep into it because I will get “moderated”. But just check the first scene of Kubrick’s movie. It is not in the book. It is a 3 minute scene. Kubrick was in England (afraid of flying) but he had a crew fly over an island and mountain road in Montana. Name of the island? Wild Goose. Name of the road? “Going to the sun” road. Apollo was the God of what? Sun. Wild goose chase means? “Hopeless pursuit of something unattainable “. What do you think he was trying to say?
Another island nearby is called Thunderbird - that's a Saturn V. Also visible is Red Eagle mountain - the Eagle has landed!
And don't forget that at one point in the film, Danny is watching the Road Runner Show, which originally aired on CBS. Which has Columbia in the name.
As I'm currently in Vietnam it's only natural that all I can hear in jr knowing's ramblings is Dennis Hopper's character in Apocalypse Now.
Hi Everyone,
…..
<snip>
1. More babble around 'who might have dun it'
2. More keyboard regurgitation of long disproven theories or explanations of people you keep saying faked things (without proving they were faked)
3. Any 'evidence' without the required references and scientific investigation performed by you (using relevant professional certification(s) and experience(s))
4. Any more deviation from the question of: proof they were faked
anything else:
1. Will be ignored
2. Is wasted effort on your part
3. Pointless to read
<snip>
1. More babble around 'who might have dun it'
2. More keyboard regurgitation of long disproven theories or explanations of people you keep saying faked things (without proving they were faked)
3. Any 'evidence' without the required references and scientific investigation performed by you (using relevant professional certification(s) and experience(s))
4. Any more deviation from the question of: proof they were faked
anything else:
1. Will be ignored
2. Is wasted effort on your part
3. Pointless to read
Will not get by the LO meter, IMO.
<snip>
1. More babble around 'who might have dun it'
2. More keyboard regurgitation of long disproven theories or explanations of people you keep saying faked things (without proving they were faked)
3. Any 'evidence' without the required references and scientific investigation performed by you (using relevant professional certification(s) and experience(s))
4. Any more deviation from the question of: proof they were faked
anything else:
1. Will be ignored
2. Is wasted effort on your part
3. Pointless to read
Will not get by the LO meter, IMO.
I think LO has explicitly said that he will not let Jr post anything that does not address these specific questions.
IOW, this thread is effectively dead, and Jr is effectively banned.
I honestly don't know if Jr is a true HB or just trolling for the lulz - Poe's law exists for a reason. But assuming the former, it's an interesting pathology to study. I've spent way too many decades hanging out in talk.origins, and I see many of the same patterns from vehement anti-evolutionists - allegations of conspiracy, inability to argue quantitatively (with a few notable exceptions who hyperfocus on the wrong quantity), reliance on narrative rather than facts, ignorance of basic methods, etc.
This certainly seems to be a pattern amongst people who buy into the moon landing hoax. They'll post some ridiculous claim or narrative that gets shot to pieces (if sometimes requiring a fairly lengthy discussion of why it's wrong), but will then steadfastly refuse to answer any questions put to them or actually defend their claims/narrative against the rebuttals. And, of course, then deflections and obfuscations commence.<snip>
1. More babble around 'who might have dun it'
2. More keyboard regurgitation of long disproven theories or explanations of people you keep saying faked things (without proving they were faked)
3. Any 'evidence' without the required references and scientific investigation performed by you (using relevant professional certification(s) and experience(s))
4. Any more deviation from the question of: proof they were faked
anything else:
1. Will be ignored
2. Is wasted effort on your part
3. Pointless to read
Will not get by the LO meter, IMO.
I think LO has explicitly said that he will not let Jr post anything that does not address these specific questions.
IOW, this thread is effectively dead, and Jr is effectively banned.
I honestly don't know if Jr is a true HB or just trolling for the lulz - Poe's law exists for a reason. But assuming the former, it's an interesting pathology to study. I've spent way too many decades hanging out in talk.origins, and I see many of the same patterns from vehement anti-evolutionists - allegations of conspiracy, inability to argue quantitatively (with a few notable exceptions who hyperfocus on the wrong quantity), reliance on narrative rather than facts, ignorance of basic methods, etc.
In fact, in my experience one way to show the silliness of various conspiracy theories is to ask the theory's proponent for a narrative - after all, if Apollo was faked then it must have followed some day-by-day process which can be rendered as a narrative. The thing is, though, it usually doesn't take long for them to contradict themselves or invoke some technology way in advance of what NASA had access to.
I had one argueing for the Apollo missions firing off a flare, so people on Earth could see they were there. Had to be a nuclear-powered flare, the size of the Tsar Bomba to be seen from Earth.
You're assuming that CTs are logical. ::)I had one argueing for the Apollo missions firing off a flare, so people on Earth could see they were there. Had to be a nuclear-powered flare, the size of the Tsar Bomba to be seen from Earth.
While on the moon? :o
I'm not sure what that would prove anyway. How could one tell there was a person there, that it wasn't an unmanned nuclear tipped rocket fired at the moon?
While on the moon? :o
I'm not sure what that would prove anyway. How could one tell there was a person there, that it wasn't an unmanned nuclear tipped rocket fired at the moon?
And don't forget that at one point in the film, Danny is watching the Road Runner Show,
Not to mention the "Acme" company has no branches there...And don't forget that at one point in the film, Danny is watching the Road Runner Show,
There are no roads on the moon - another hint...
Its been very quiet hasn't it!?Guess it's time to hibernate until 1) jr knowing bucks up and starts actually answering some questions, 2) cambo makes his inglorious return, or 3) some new HBs decides they want to embarrass themselves. Ah well, at least there's the "The Reality of Apollo" subreddit. By the way, is anybody else aware that Michael Collins has an Instagram account? It's been really cool following along with him posting various Apollo 11-related things and adding his own commentary.
Frankly, I will be very surprised if we see jr Knowing back. LO will not approve any posts of his unless they answer the questions put to him, and I don't think he has any evidence to present - no legs to stand on.
I would be less than surprised to find him posting on other forums, telling them that he has been banned here (all the evil NASA shills at Apollohoax won't listen to his twoof!)
Its been very quiet hasn't it!?Guess it's time to hibernate until 1) jr knowing bucks up and starts actually answering some questions, 2) cambo makes his inglorious return, or 3) some new HBs decides they want to embarrass themselves. Ah well, at least there's the "The Reality of Apollo" subreddit. By the way, is anybody else aware that Michael Collins has an Instagram account? It's been really cool following along with him posting various Apollo 11-related things and adding his own commentary.
Frankly, I will be very surprised if we see jr Knowing back. LO will not approve any posts of his unless they answer the questions put to him, and I don't think he has any evidence to present - no legs to stand on.
I would be less than surprised to find him posting on other forums, telling them that he has been banned here (all the evil NASA shills at Apollohoax won't listen to his twoof!)
Its been very quiet hasn't it!?Guess it's time to hibernate until 1) jr knowing bucks up and starts actually answering some questions, 2) cambo makes his inglorious return, or 3) some new HBs decides they want to embarrass themselves. Ah well, at least there's the "The Reality of Apollo" subreddit. By the way, is anybody else aware that Michael Collins has an Instagram account? It's been really cool following along with him posting various Apollo 11-related things and adding his own commentary.
Frankly, I will be very surprised if we see jr Knowing back. LO will not approve any posts of his unless they answer the questions put to him, and I don't think he has any evidence to present - no legs to stand on.
I would be less than surprised to find him posting on other forums, telling them that he has been banned here (all the evil NASA shills at Apollohoax won't listen to his twoof!)
You could always come over to the Unexplained Mysteries forum. There are a couple of vaguely Apollo-hoax related threads active there ATM.
Delightfully, I am dealing with an idiot on Facebook right now who doesn't understand how art works. A friend posted a link to an astonishingly beautiful photo gallery of someone who takes a thousand pictures over the course of a day and blends them into one image, and this guy is insisting that images like this are why people fall for photo manipulation in the media. I suppose I have encountered HBs who would fall for them and need the "this is digitally manipulated" watermark this guy is insisting should appear on the picture with both a sunrise and a sunset in a single location.
Delightfully, I am dealing with an idiot on Facebook right now who doesn't understand how art works. A friend posted a link to an astonishingly beautiful photo gallery of someone who takes a thousand pictures over the course of a day and blends them into one image, and this guy is insisting that images like this are why people fall for photo manipulation in the media. I suppose I have encountered HBs who would fall for them and need the "this is digitally manipulated" watermark this guy is insisting should appear on the picture with both a sunrise and a sunset in a single location.
There was that video that a woman posted to YouTube showing a rainbow in her sprinkler, and that was evidence of The Government doing something nefarious to our water, because water simply doesn't do that.
It's like, had she never seen a sprinkler on a sunny day? Ever? In her entire life?
You have to wonder how many people are just bullshitting to be edgy, how many of them suffer from a legitimate mental illness (which I think is the case for sprinkler woman), and how many of them are just genuinely that confused/naive/ignorant. And how people in that last group get along in the world. At least few of them must have jobs, must be able to navigate the outside world on a daily basis, and yet...
For giggles, while we're waiting for Jr to come back with answers to bknight's original questions (I know, work with me here), here's an image IZRAUL linked in his short-lived thread:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Tqng2upUJk-sfAolX-5P0RWbh_ZxlRQKMidQYRTwAjSstRUT8L6_0cXMtFU08j82qW_RY9yuAAoK67ZHwySOuBmaaCX8JLuqpJe1ERlfMRyJfaE0Pekv-IlX4DAXP8BoAYxqz7wfscWX66KxHWVaxbTRRu5L6yERKrW1Zr_eM9fCGNejYFnuogizFzz6wiE1gfYVHtmGaHAnMbwkoJNlJAR0_B7wU5sYSIFiR1SW3TfCj7xPHk5kqIqywyJJJoAkJjH9rDCXIDfdu_RSnGV4uMFBpfjpN5OrYD3vSa3b0tN9f74OUhRfeu1wN5qXz6_a7ebhebG5gYUNDkquay_0O5IB6mLHLWqkB0uOii-dbJM71MXMXMhX-MW8Qxibt7t8xvREBDZ5sUIlrn6WKvWJsrvAXZhahsu6TZ4UbpIQAmh40eSLUnEMAB1qlqkI1MmyWq_lVd30JmclVThFqKMQk9ZCVu2CJT9Q1IOj8k5VHzGUV-1rWPezhMHqrrwg6_EGIMI2vC8W7pxTbfwjMckJQhg9BTpXtIIYQBWbsmdxZ7JW2WpDy6rkbCO5DqE2kEe7dNrc2uWL0WE5PlUJdn9D6JhDpaL3hLhzRhekdU2r6daPfCbfOJ8yEeulZnwnyUlaZQqZzCIa5xJvV3I5XfrSMdWmMPZkBQAgsNqxPwQ97_XyP4cSSaAuFT_X3i4_SVaRx-NxTG0pMqjF9DKa4gjX5AUBYn1A185_yWWQ8LN38LdFI9g=w770-h487-no)
Now, you and I see a panorama made up of multiple prints laid over each other, with some bonus lens flare in several of them from pointing toward the sun (but not at the sun, which would result in a detail-free white blob and nothing else).
IZRAUL (or whoever originally posted it) sees studio lights. Or 3 suns.
Edgy? Crazy? Dumb as the proverbial stump? It bothers me that I can't tell anymore.
Its been very quiet hasn't it!?Guess it's time to hibernate until 1) jr knowing bucks up and starts actually answering some questions, 2) cambo makes his inglorious return, or 3) some new HBs decides they want to embarrass themselves. Ah well, at least there's the "The Reality of Apollo" subreddit. By the way, is anybody else aware that Michael Collins has an Instagram account? It's been really cool following along with him posting various Apollo 11-related things and adding his own commentary.
Frankly, I will be very surprised if we see jr Knowing back. LO will not approve any posts of his unless they answer the questions put to him, and I don't think he has any evidence to present - no legs to stand on.
I would be less than surprised to find him posting on other forums, telling them that he has been banned here (all the evil NASA shills at Apollohoax won't listen to his twoof!)
You could always come over to the Unexplained Mysteries forum. There are a couple of vaguely Apollo-hoax related threads active there ATM.
As others have pointed out, if it's shown that someone has the motive and opportunity to murder his mother-in-law, none of the clever narrative that comes out of those suppositions matters if the mother-in-law is still very much alive.
In this day and age, we grant also that people can and should self-educate.
To avoid tests of his claims, Jr Knowing has tried to shame the notion of attacking someone's opinion. All opinions have to be respected, it is claimed, especially if you disagree with them. But that's not really true. An opinion should get only as much respect as it deserves.
Not knowing the facts doesn't entitle you to substitute for them with imagination.
We can't test the evidence until the claimant presents it.
I used to use the example of murdering my wife, until she joined this forum and noticed how often I used the example and asked if she should be concerned...
To avoid tests of his claims, Jr Knowing has tried to shame the notion of attacking someone's opinion. All opinions have to be respected, it is claimed, especially if you disagree with them. But that's not really true. An opinion should get only as much respect as it deserves. And to further hide his ignorance, Jr has asked facetiously whether only professional opinions should be respected. In many cases, yes -- especially if the opinion is to play a role as evidence and the circumstances suggest specialized understanding. An opinion deserves respect only to the extent it is based on complete and correct information, and only insofar as it makes reasonable inferences. Opinions predicated on ignorance and soiled by bias don't deserve as much respect.
I used to use the example of murdering my wife, until she joined this forum and noticed how often I used the example and asked if she should be concerned...
This is where most of my knowledge of spaceflight, history, engineering and Apollo has come from. And frankly, while it is always easier to educate oneself in a subject that one is interested in, it wasn't hard work to do so. Jr and others like him should have no difficulty in educating themselves to a similar standard.
Instead they demonstrate a near patholigical wish to avoid doing so, which (as far as I can see) leads only to the conclusion that they are not interested in the actual truth, only in perpetuating the conspiracy theory and their own self-created image as a shrewd, 'woke' individual not taken in my 'the man'.
Or that they are only interested in yanking the chains of those who are educated in some attempt to make themselves feel relevant.
And another thing we've seen from JR and his ilk is them triumphantly slapping down some piece of 'evidence' while also making it blatantly obvious they have not understood it or even read it. Witness JR's memo about LM stability, presented as 'evidence' because it mentions LM instability....
Evidence only works if examined dispassionately. Looking for evidence to support a predetermined conclusion is the usual tactic of the conspiracy theorist.
I can't remember whether it was BertieSlack or , Phil Webb or, Astrobrant2 that did a debunking of a video by my "favorite" Marcus Allen concerning the same image.
I can't remember whether it was BertieSlack or , Phil Webb or, Astrobrant2 that did a debunking of a video by my "favorite" Marcus Allen concerning the same image.
It was Astrobrant2:
Absolute demolition.
BlisterHiker did one too:
In a nutshell (pun intended), the number of credentialed aerospace engineers who dispute the authenticity of Apollo are so few we can almost name them individually.This surprises me. I wasn't aware of ANY credentialed aerospace engineer that disputes the Apollo missions in any manner.
This surprises me. I wasn't aware of ANY credentialed aerospace engineer that disputes the Apollo missions in any manner.
This surprises me. I wasn't aware of ANY credentialed aerospace engineer that disputes the Apollo missions in any manner.
I had Hunchbacked in mind. There is also Anders Lindman, but I don't think he specialized in aerospace.
Did we ever determine if hunchbacked is a real degree-holding engineer?
I found it here.
http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/Diplomes/DiplomeOriginal.jpg
https://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=1393.30
Did we ever determine if hunchbacked is a real degree-holding engineer?
There is also Anders Lindman, but I don't think he specialized in aerospace.
Did we ever determine if hunchbacked is a real degree-holding engineer?
Whatever he is currently he is spilling nonsense all over a lot of Facebook groups.
Allan is he still on the one we used to chat on
Did we ever determine if hunchbacked is a real degree-holding engineer?
Whatever he is currently he is spilling nonsense all over a lot of Facebook groups.
Allan is he still on the one we used to chat on
Yes, I know. I've been irritating him for some time there, showing him videos which exposes his fails.
"let me guess he hasn't changed his mind. I saw one the other day called 'How i debunked clavius'. I assume Jay has seen that one !!"
From my experience, Jay doesn't watch any YT.
Did we ever determine if hunchbacked is a real degree-holding engineer?
Whatever he is currently he is spilling nonsense all over a lot of Facebook groups.
Allan is he still on the one we used to chat on
let me guess he hasn't changed his mind.
He posted this being critical of the blunder a couple of months ago. I guess attempting to "bring him back into the hard core HB's.". I may/may not have watched it, but it wasn't interesting enough for me to remember.
let me guess he hasn't changed his mind.
Of course not. It would be the same as cutting an arm or a leg off for him. He has invested so much of his self and his sense of identity in the hoaxworld, he can't quit even if he tried.
From what i've read he won't be back will he !!
From what i've read he won't be back will he !!AFAIK, he can return whenever he likes if he answers the pending questions. Even with a concession, if he has nothing else.
From what i've read he won't be back will he !!I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
But here's the thing about this: the question is literally 'what evidence led you to believe the pictures are fake', and anyone who has reached that conclusion by any rational means should already have that evidence and response to hand, because it would necessarily have come before the conclusion. There should not be any 'imminence' or delay or need for obfuscation to the response. Anyone making a claim should be able to answer that basic question without hesitation. That JR has not responded, even when pressed by moderation to do so, suggests he doesn't have that answer, which indicates only that his claim is not one he reached by any actual objective examination of evidence that he can present to an audience.Logically well stated. He also seems to hold a different definition of "imminent" than I do.
Huh. Either he's not answering the questions and hence not getting through moderation, or his idea of "imminent" comes from the crazy guys on the street holding "the end is nigh!" signs.From what i've read he won't be back will he !!I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
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Huh. Either he's not answering the questions and hence not getting through moderation, or his idea of "imminent" comes from the crazy guys on the street holding "the end is nigh!" signs.From what i've read he won't be back will he !!I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
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My thoughts were a little more on hardcore street preachers and/or the hecklers you find outside any fair, sports game, etc. Alternatively, flat earthers and hoax nuts who keep moving the goalposts for the "imminent" reveal of the round earth/moon landing deception that's never going to happen.Huh. Either he's not answering the questions and hence not getting through moderation, or his idea of "imminent" comes from the crazy guys on the street holding "the end is nigh!" signs.From what i've read he won't be back will he !!I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
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You meant the extinction rebellion folks gluing themselves to roads?
Huh. Either he's not answering the questions and hence not getting through moderation, or his idea of "imminent" comes from the crazy guys on the street holding "the end is nigh!" signs.From what i've read he won't be back will he !!I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
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In short, he's put his conclusions before his evidence. A tale as old as time.Huh. Either he's not answering the questions and hence not getting through moderation, or his idea of "imminent" comes from the crazy guys on the street holding "the end is nigh!" signs.From what i've read he won't be back will he !!I've been informed by Jr. that his response to the questions is imminent. But we'll see...
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I'm sure he's busily answering questions, just not the ones being asked, so they're not making it through the LO filter.
The question he wants to answer is "who faked the moon landings and why" (Kubrick, $$$$). He's more than ready to answer that question. I'm sure he's written entire volumes in response to that question.
He most emphatically does not want to answer the question "how do you know these images were faked (retouched, composited, shot on a soundstage, etc.)?" because that requires actual work, not spinning yarns out of pure fantasy.
I'm sure he's busily answering questions, just not the ones being asked, so they're not making it through the LO filter.
I wonder if LO can tell us if JR even made the attempt. Just idly curious, LO is certainly free to tell me to MYOB.He hasn't even been active since (as of this post) late September 2019, (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2052) so I have my doubts of him making his big, mind blowing, announcement any time soon.
Oh well, guess we'll just have to wait another fifty years for "the truth" about Apollo to come out...I wonder if LO can tell us if JR even made the attempt. Just idly curious, LO is certainly free to tell me to MYOB.He hasn't even been active since (as of this post) late September 2019, (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2052) so I have my doubts of him making his big, mind blowing, announcement any time soon.
I wonder if LO can tell us if JR even made the attempt. Just idly curious, LO is certainly free to tell me to MYOB.
I wonder if LO can tell us if JR even made the attempt. Just idly curious, LO is certainly free to tell me to MYOB.
No, he just never bothered. On September 22nd he asked me to create a new thread for his response so that it wouldn't be "buried in someone else's thread". He said he wanted to explain why he believes "the Apollo photos are suspect in a clear concise manner" and in "a new and unique take on the subject". I told him no, there was no need for a new thread so he'd have to post his responses in this one. He never responded. I guess he expected me to play his game and didn't like that I wouldn't.
Because he wanted to do what he always did: treat a new thread like a new start, pretend no other thread exists, so he can direct it down another tangent and pretend he has never been asked any other questions.
I wonder if LO can tell us if JR even made the attempt. Just idly curious, LO is certainly free to tell me to MYOB.
No, he just never bothered. On September 22nd he asked me to create a new thread for his response so that it wouldn't be "buried in someone else's thread". He said he wanted to explain why he believes "the Apollo photos are suspect in a clear concise manner" and in "a new and unique take on the subject". I told him no, there was no need for a new thread so he'd have to post his responses in this one. He never responded. I guess he expected me to play his game and didn't like that I wouldn't.
He just wanted to lure me into starting yet another thread...
I'll admit to being slightly tempted to start a new thread myself in off-topic to discuss the differences between book and movie of The Shining, especially since I just read Doctor Sleep, because that was yet another place he was wrong. But I've held off.
Fair enough. I guess he just wanted the "badge of honour" of having his notions oppressed.I wonder if LO can tell us if JR even made the attempt. Just idly curious, LO is certainly free to tell me to MYOB.
No, he just never bothered. On September 22nd he asked me to create a new thread for his response so that it wouldn't be "buried in someone else's thread". He said he wanted to explain why he believes "the Apollo photos are suspect in a clear concise manner" and in "a new and unique take on the subject". I told him no, there was no need for a new thread so he'd have to post his responses in this one. He never responded. I guess he expected me to play his game and didn't like that I wouldn't.
I'll admit to being slightly tempted to start a new thread myself in off-topic to discuss the differences between book and movie of The Shining, especially since I just read Doctor Sleep, because that was yet another place he was wrong. But I've held off.
he as in Jr.?