ApolloHoax.net
Off Topic => Other Conspiracy Theories => Topic started by: AstroBrant on October 29, 2014, 10:55:30 AM
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Do you believe 9-11 was a hoax? An inside job? Well, do we have a vacation offer for you!
Come to the beautiful rolling foothills of the Pennsylvania Appalachians and visit the Flight 93 National Memorial in Stoystown next September 11. There is now a visitor center, small museum, paved walkway, and memorial wall at the site of the Flight 93 (alleged) crash. The entrance provides an excellent place for you to make speeches and pass out leaflets.
As an added entertainment, the park will be inundated with several hundred motorcyclists, participating in an increasingly popular annual pilgrimmage to the site.
And best of all: it's free!
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A great idea AstroBrant! That would be the perfect venue for these brave, patriotic twoof...err...truth seekers to disseminate their message. The bikers should be an especially receptive audience!
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A great idea AstroBrant! That would be the perfect venue for these brave, patriotic twoof...err...truth seekers to disseminate their message. The bikers should be an especially receptive audience!
Yeah, anonymity is no protection when a studded leather glove is embedded in one's face. ;D
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Yeah, anonymity is no protection when a studded leather glove is embedded in one's face. ;D
What a great line!!
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A great idea AstroBrant! That would be the perfect venue for these brave, patriotic twoof...err...truth seekers to disseminate their message. The bikers should be an especially receptive audience!
The Flight 93 memorial was one of my last stops on my recently completed 8-month grand tour of the continental 48 in my 5th wheel. I was there on September 12. Even so, about 20 bikers were there. I heard that the day before, the line of bikers coming in was about a mile long. I'm hoping to spend next summer in New England. I'll go to the memorial on 9-11 as I come back south. I'll see if my ad attracted any ambitious, (and equally foolish), twoofers. Good video material.
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There's something about truthers that makes me want to put them all in a big field and tell them off in a very strict voice.
I don't feel at all the same way about any other conspiracy theories; Apollo, JFK, bin Laden's death, birthers, Diana's death, Prince Harry's parentage, chem trails. It seems that most events have a conspiracy theory attached, but 9/11 twoofers truthers really make me seethe.
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....tell them off in a very strict voice.
All I could think of was the "strict voice" of an Uzi. I am sure that is not what you meant.
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There's something about truthers that makes me want to put them all in a big field and tell them off in a very strict voice.
9/11 Twoof has to be just about the most stupid conspiracy theory ever, especially when we get into the weird world of "no planers" and the suggestions that mini-nuclear weapons were used to bring the towers down.
But worse than that, the very suggestion that it was all faked is an affront to the thousands of people who died in the attacks, and it is particularly insulting to the memory of the first responders lost in the tragedy; NY's finest and most courageous, and their families. Disgraceful!
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....tell them off in a very strict voice.
All I could think of was the "strict voice" of an Uzi. I am sure that is not what you meant.
I was leaving it for others to find alternatives for 'strict voice' as I felt using the term 'napalm them' was not befitting for use with the gentle folk of this forum. ;)
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There's something about truthers that makes me want to put them all in a big field and tell them off in a very strict voice.
9/11 Twoof has to be just about the most stupid conspiracy theory ever, especially when we get into the weird world of "no planers" and the suggestions that mini-nuclear weapons were used to bring the towers down.
Mini nuclear weapons? Where do these people get their ideas from?
But worse than that, the very suggestion that it was all faked is an affront to the thousands of people who died in the attacks, and it is particularly insulting to the memory of the first responders lost in the tragedy; NY's finest and most courageous, and their families. Disgraceful!
That's how I feel, especially when the truth costs $70 for a DVD or book. It is one of the reasons that my normal measured approach to Apollo hoax believers becomes disgust when I see David Percy's smug face and hear his pretentious waffle. He wants to sell the truth, portraying himself as a worldly sage with that horrendous pseudo-erudite charm, when he couldn't hold up a candle to a single person that worked on Apollo. I deplore those that market 'truth' but then there is something about twoofers truthers that brings out the very worst in me.
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Yeah. I'd especially like to see an encounter at that memorial between a twoofer and a relative of one of the people who died on that airplane.
I'd like to think the twoofer would have the dignity and good sense to keep his mouth shut, but I doubt it.
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I'd like to think the twoofer would have the dignity and good sense to keep his mouth shut, but I doubt it.
I see what you did there, you used the term 'good sense' and 'twoofer' in the same sentence. That was careless for a normally well considered writer ;)
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I've never met a
twoofer truther. I'm not sure how I would react if I did.
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I've certainly met enough online (mainly on Youtube) but never in person.
Seems rather funny now that I think about it. Maybe they're a big conspiracy, and don't really exist.
Or maybe they just never leave their basements.
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Mini nuclear weapons? Where do these people get their ideas from?
You thought I was kidding, didn't you?
http://www.henrymakow.com/911_-_nukes_caused_this_devast.html
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Seems rather funny now that I think about it. Maybe they're a big conspiracy, and don't really exist.
Ha, I'll try that line with conspiracy theorists in future. Maybe the reality is like two opposing mirrors when we look into them, and there are conspiracies of conspiracies of conspiracies of...
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You thought I was kidding, didn't you?
No, I didn't actually. :(
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I have a friend who thinks there are "unanswered questions." The irritating part is that she's a scientist and has fallen for the "no melting steel" bit.
Still, my favourite (and I wish I could remember whose idea this one was) has long been the exploding rebar idea.
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Still, my favourite (and I wish I could remember whose idea this one was) has long been the exploding rebar idea.
I had to Google 'exploding rebar' and '9/11'. So, there are some people that believe rebar was coated with C4 and used to demolish the towers. That takes a special kind of wow.
I have to admit that I don't know a lot about 9/11 conspiracy theories, simply because I won't entertain them. That's not a slur on those here, I think such ideas need challenging. 9/11 is something that I rarely comment on as I have utter disdain for twoofers truthers. I've seen a few 9/11 theories, and all of them are absurd and easily debunked. I guess the twoofers truthers would argue that I have no case to dismiss them out of hand if I do not examine their theories seriously. I feel the same about a lot of the Apollo ideas such as non parallel shadows, multiple light sources, waving flags and idiotic C -rock idea. You need to be a special kind of moron to even think you can pass those ideas as being legitimate.
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Yeah. I'd especially like to see an encounter at that memorial between a twoofer and a relative of one of the people who died on that airplane.
When I was there I learned that the rally was started by the mother of one of the passengers, IIRC. I believe there have been two or three different biker memorial pilgrimages under different names. The main one you will find was on the 10th anniversary, called "Let's Roll: Flight 93 Memorial Motorcycle Ride." But when I recently did a Google search I couldn't find the name of the one I saw going on.
I suspect that every year from now on, there will be biker clubs which will make the trek. I see the possibility of this growing. Some farmer might decide to dedicate some land, shelters, porta-johns, etc., for campers and bikers. Could be like a little Woodstock.
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Still, my favourite (and I wish I could remember whose idea this one was) has long been the exploding rebar idea.
I had to Google 'exploding rebar' and '9/11'. So, there are some people that believe rebar was coated with C4 and used to demolish the towers. That takes a special kind of wow.
I have to admit that I don't know a lot about 9/11 conspiracy theories, simply because I won't entertain them. That's not a slur on those here, I think such ideas need challenging. 9/11 is something that I rarely comment on as I have utter disdain for twoofers truthers. I've seen a few 9/11 theories, and all of them are absurd and easily debunked. I guess the twoofers truthers would argue that I have no case to dismiss them out of hand if I do not examine their theories seriously. I feel the same about a lot of the Apollo ideas such as non parallel shadows, multiple light sources, waving flags and idiotic C -rock idea. You need to be a special kind of moron to even think you can pass those ideas as being legitimate.
C4 on the rebar? That's a new one. As I understand the construction, not much rebar was used. The "nano"-thermite idea has rattled around for a long time, even though it is proven to be nonsense.
As I see explosives - and used them in the servide (only training) coating a piece of steel in high explosive would be extremely "not very productive" - you'd have to use a huge amount, relative to using cutting charges at the right points - and then you'd have the building collapsing from the buttom up and not the top down. Not to mention the huge amount of work needed to dig out the rebar, coat it, put it back and pour new concrete - without thousands of people knowing.
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Mini nuclear weapons? Where do these people get their ideas from?
You thought I was kidding, didn't you?
http://www.henrymakow.com/911_-_nukes_caused_this_devast.html
Then there's this clown actor/filmmaker named Peter Valentino a.k.a. Papamundi, who's arguing over at ISF (ex-JREF forum, for those not aware of the change) that the Knights of Malta are behind the attacks, and that the buildings were brought down by three 150 KT nukes buried in the foundations of WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7... buried as they were being built!
He has a trailer on YouTube for the film he made about this CT, where the claim is made Henry Kissinger revealed all this on his death bed. And no folks, you didn't miss Kissinger's obit. He's 91 and still very much alive.
You can find that thread here http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277476
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C4 on the rebar? That's a new one.
Dates back to when BAUT was still BAUT and still allowed non-space CTs. And, so far as I can tell, the person was actually serious.
ETA--Oh, and the claim as I recall is that it was built with exploding rebar, kind of a giant self-destruct button.
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I have a friend who thinks there are "unanswered questions."
The trouble with most Conspiraholics... they are literally "just asking questions", listening to or reading answers is not covered by that.
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I've seen a number of those claims on various sites. The idea is that modern skyscrapers are just too darn hard to demolish, or at least something the size of the Towers would be. So, architects started to build in mechanisms for a controlled demolition as the buildings were constructed. Yes, the Twin Towers were built with explosives (either nuclear or conventional) as part of the design, ready to bring those suckers down "in their footprint"!
Of course, saner minds would bring up that (1) no one has ever heard of this (it's not taught in architecture classes or included in public discussions of civil engineering), and (2) people would be very nervous living and working in huge buildings that could collapse if someone hit the wrong switch. The conspiracists claim that (2) explains (1). It's a benevolent lie. Of course, as soon as the system was used to bring down a skyscraper, it would be out in the open, but that's ... well, let's not go there.
I think the idea is that if they can get their opponents to make what they see as a small concession ("Yes, it would make sense to put a self-destruct mechanism in a giant skyscraper,") it would then be an easy step to get them to admit "And then the Eeevil PTB could possibly have commandeered this mechanism for evil instead of good." Unfortunately, the first concession is so ludicrous this plan doesn't work.
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Papamundi, who's arguing over at ISF (ex-JREF forum, for those not aware of the change) that the Knights of Malta are behind the attacks, and that the buildings were brought down by three 150 KT nukes buried in the foundations of WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7... buried as they were being built!
150 kT??? Do these people have any idea about the energy released in nuclear explosions. The videos of tests are filmed from many miles away and never really convey the energy produced.
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150 kT??? Do these people have any idea about the energy released in nuclear explosions. The videos of tests are filmed from many miles away and never really convey the energy produced.
No, they have no idea (mainly because they are f&*%R!g idiots). Hiroshima was devastated with a yield of 15 kilotons, yet these utter, utter idiots are talking about 450 kilotons.
The 911 and, especially, the Boston bombing twoofers make my blood boil due to the devastation and human suffering caused in those incidents.
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I have a friend who thinks there are "unanswered questions." The irritating part is that she's a scientist and has fallen for the "no melting steel" bit.
I was shocked and saddened when I discovered that Lynn Margulis had become a 9-11 conspiracy theorist. Does anybody know if she ever retracted her position?
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I was shocked and saddened when I discovered that Lynn Margulis had become a 9-11 conspiracy theorist. Does anybody know if she ever retracted her position?
She also became an AIDS denier, which for a biologist was just a breath-taking position to have
"There is a vast body of literature on syphilis spanning from the 1500s until after World War II, when the disease was supposedly cured by penicillin. It’s in our paper “Resurgence of the Great Imitator.” Our claim is that there’s no evidence that HIV is an infectious virus, or even an entity at all. There’s no scientific paper that proves that the HIV virus causes AIDS. "
http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/04/13/the-linus-pauling-effect/
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The 911 and, especially, the Boston bombing twoofers make my blood boil due to the devastation and human suffering caused in those incidents.
And Sandy Hook and the Haiti earthquake. While I care a great deal about Apollo, I am able, at least most of the time, to maintain some degree of equanimity. But when I come across these pariahs who exploit real tragedies for their own self-promotion or cynical, anti-whatever propaganda, I can't keep my cool for very long. That's why I avoid them.
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I was shocked and saddened when I discovered that Lynn Margulis had become a 9-11 conspiracy theorist. Does anybody know if she ever retracted her position?
She also became an AIDS denier, which for a biologist was just a breath-taking position to have
"There is a vast body of literature on syphilis spanning from the 1500s until after World War II, when the disease was supposedly cured by penicillin. It’s in our paper “Resurgence of the Great Imitator.” Our claim is that there’s no evidence that HIV is an infectious virus, or even an entity at all. There’s no scientific paper that proves that the HIV virus causes AIDS. "
http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/04/13/the-linus-pauling-effect/
Ohhh, my... how sad! Another respected scientist who just went off the deep end.
William Crookes, Alfred Russell Wallace, Carl Jung, John Mack....
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And Sandy Hook and the Haiti earthquake. While I care a great deal about Apollo, I am able, at least most of the time, to maintain some degree of equanimity. But when I come across these pariahs who exploit real tragedies for their own self-promotion or cynical, anti-whatever propaganda, I can't keep my cool for very long. That's why I avoid them.
I rarely let the stupidity of others get to me, but seeing a bunch of f&%*kwit idiots dissecting the horrific Boston bombing images and trying to make out that it was all a sham, that the people screaming in pain were just actors, that it was all a false-flag incident pushed me over the edge. It goes to show just how divorced these fools are from real human interaction and just how little they have in their lives of social connections and empathy for our fellow human beings.
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Ohhh, my... how sad! Another respected scientist who just went off the deep end.
William Crookes, Alfred Russell Wallace, Carl Jung, John Mack....
Edgar Mitchell
Not a scientist, but a confirmed member of the Woo-Woo brigade.
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I was shocked and saddened when I discovered that Lynn Margulis had become a 9-11 conspiracy theorist. Does anybody know if she ever retracted her position?
She also became an AIDS denier, which for a biologist was just a breath-taking position to have
"There is a vast body of literature on syphilis spanning from the 1500s until after World War II, when the disease was supposedly cured by penicillin. It’s in our paper “Resurgence of the Great Imitator.” Our claim is that there’s no evidence that HIV is an infectious virus, or even an entity at all. There’s no scientific paper that proves that the HIV virus causes AIDS. "
http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/04/13/the-linus-pauling-effect/
AIDS denial and anti-vaccine propaganda are the worst of the conspiracy theories. Most of them are harmless; few people are really hurt by belief in a Moon Landing hoax. Some drive people to acts of violence, but those events are rare compared to the "just asking questions, but not actually doing anything" group.
The number of people who fall for medical hoaxes and don't get treatment they need to fight dangerous diseases is staggering.
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Ohhh, my... how sad! Another respected scientist who just went off the deep end.
William Crookes, Alfred Russell Wallace, Carl Jung, John Mack....
Nikola Tesla, David Allan...
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AIDS denial and anti-vaccine propaganda are the worst of the conspiracy theories.
AIDS denial? What is wrong with these people.
The number of people who fall for medical hoaxes and don't get treatment they need to fight dangerous diseases is staggering.
I agree, with measles and mumps on the rise it is truly sad that these idiots walk the Earth.
I was suckered by the JFK conspiracy when I was in my teens, but only in the sense that it was something to talk about. Apollo is harmless, although it does irritate me that kids in their mother's basements denigrate the work of so many brilliant minds. There are some conspiracy theories that are truly harmful and utterly distasteful.
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I agree, with measles and mumps on the rise it is truly sad that these idiots walk the Earth.
Darwinian natural selection should take care of vaccine deniers. Or at least, it will help to prevent their dumb-ass genes polluting the gene-pool..... :P
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Darwinian natural selection should take care of vaccine deniers. Or at least, it will help to prevent their dumb-ass genes polluting the gene-pool..... :P
Sadly it is the children of the deniers and those gullible to believe the nonsense that are the most inflicted, and are denied vaccines at an age where they do not have the ability to make a conscious decision about what is right for them.
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Mini nuclear weapons? Where do these people get their ideas from?
Still, that has to be a step up from Judy Wood's Orbital Emergy Bean Weapons.
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Sadly it is the children of the deniers and those gullible to believe the nonsense that are the most inflicted, and are denied vaccines at an age where they do not have the ability to make a conscious decision about what is right for them.
Aye, I know. Still...stops the genes from spreading :-\ :-[
Now if only these idiot parents could get their daft ideas BEFORE they manage to breed.....
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Sadly it is the children of the deniers and those gullible to believe the nonsense that are the most inflicted, and are denied vaccines at an age where they do not have the ability to make a conscious decision about what is right for them.
Not to mention people with legitimate medical reasons for not getting vaccinated, like the immunodeficient or children under one. I was literally counting the days until Simon's MMR--and then they told me that they don't like to give MMR and varicella at the same appointment, so it got set back until his fifteen-month check-up. I understand that he's more likely to come into contact with chicken pox, but I'm more afraid of measles. Anyway, he's had both shots now, so he's unlikely to get either disease. But it's also worth noting that the vaccines aren't one hundred percent effective, so people who don't vaccinate their kids might still be putting him at risk.
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But it's also worth noting that the vaccines aren't one hundred percent effective, so people who don't vaccinate their kids might still be putting him at risk.
Yes, the weakening of "herd immunity."
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And Sandy Hook and the Haiti earthquake. While I care a great deal about Apollo, I am able, at least most of the time, to maintain some degree of equanimity. But when I come across these pariahs who exploit real tragedies for their own self-promotion or cynical, anti-whatever propaganda, I can't keep my cool for very long. That's why I avoid them.
I rarely let the stupidity of others get to me, but seeing a bunch of f&%*kwit idiots dissecting the horrific Boston bombing images and trying to make out that it was all a sham, that the people screaming in pain were just actors, that it was all a false-flag incident pushed me over the edge. It goes to show just how divorced these fools are from real human interaction and just how little they have in their lives of social connections and empathy for our fellow human beings.
I have a particular thing with this, that thing is I cannot put my finger on why the stupid. I dip into a few forums to look see at stuff at work, and see how it progresses and many events are dissected as "suspect", "other forces at work", "definitely something wrong here" etc. etc. They proclaim it in a fashion of some sort of expert. They know as they can type a few things on a keyboard and gat an answer. There ability ends, they fail to ask if it is the right answer or seek that answers provenance but it is the answer they want. And the hangers on reinforce that belief.
The attack on a soldier in London garners the usual from the usual (one ex footballer, ex TV show host etc. forum is a good example), the ability to stay at home and use a computer to say the blood was the wrong colour without realising how the image was made and has got to a monitor is breathtakingly cringing.
I would not want to see a confrontation with any people directly involved with any tragedy and conspiracy people unless the former sought it out. The ones harping on about Sandy Hook would never go there I suspect, easier to bash the keyboard in a warrior way. How bad must it be for the families if this lot descended even if they were to leave with their tails firmly between their legs? Not sure what the answer is. A moderated TV debate I fear would descend into farce.
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It is amazing how easily you can start a conspiracy.
At the air base I work at we built some dummy "aircraft" to practice deck handling aboard a new class of aircraft carrier. Because of the way they look, I told some "targeted audience" that they were secret stealth aircraft (and backed it with images). Next thing there were rumours about secret aircraft being tested!
Now, nothing will convince them that they are dummy aircraft.
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AIDS denial and anti-vaccine propaganda are the worst of the conspiracy theories.
AIDS denial? What is wrong with these people.
AIDS, more than any other disease, has political components to its management and treatment. Many on one side see it as a punishment for a lifestyle. On the other side , you have people who hate the thought that the best solutions we have so far have come from Big Government and Big Medicine, whom they distrust and despise. So, on both sides (and all the assorted offshoots of those sides), you have people who have an emotional interest in denying that AIDS is "simply" an infectious disease.
Throw in a bit of "if I show that AIDS is not what everyone thinks, I'm a shoo-in for the Nobel Prize," and it's very tempting for some people.
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Don't forget the delays in treatment from those who considered it a punishment for a lifestyle and therefore didn't put any money into, you know, helping dying people. I'm certainly not an AIDS denialist, but it's one of the few real-world conspiracies I believe in on any kind of large scale. I believe that there were people in the US government in the '80s who just didn't care that Those People were dying and therefore systematically denied funding to people who were asking for it, knowing it wouldn't matter at election time because most of their base didn't like Those People, either.
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A conspiracy implies an agreement to do (or not do) something. I don't think the AIDS situation was a conspiracy, just a bunch of people who thought the same and therefore didn't allocate funds when needed.
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It also highlights the reactive nature of government and its tendency to deal with situation where contractors can get involved.
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There were indeed some strange scientific theories during the original outbreak. My favorite was an otherwise respected researcher who "proved" that AIDS could be spread by casual contact. The proof - he'd done a survey of it's spread in a Florida town, and determined that (gasp) people in their fifties and sixties were contracting it! Even a few men in their seventies.
As he argued, we know that people that age don't have sex, so it must be spread by some other mechanisms.
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And certainly none of them had had surgery and therefore required blood transfusions, either.
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Well, it sounded funny at the time, but there was a tragic story up here, where a man contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion, and passed it on to his wife, who also died of the disease.
His doctor admitted in court that he had not advised the couple on avoiding unprotected sex, because "he was in his sixties, and she was in her fifties, and I just didn't think it was necessary."
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I doubt that's the only time it happened. The willingness to let Those People die killed a lot of people who weren't Those People.
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I agree, with measles and mumps on the rise it is truly sad that these idiots walk the Earth.
Darwinian natural selection should take care of vaccine deniers. Or at least, it will help to prevent their dumb-ass genes polluting the gene-pool..... :P
That is true but there are the unsuspecting innocents that may spread diseases because their guardians didn't get them shots.
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Darwinian natural selection should take care of vaccine deniers. Or at least, it will help to prevent their dumb-ass genes polluting the gene-pool..... :P
Sadly it is the children of the deniers and those gullible to believe the nonsense that are the most inflicted, and are denied vaccines at an age where they do not have the ability to make a conscious decision about what is right for them.
Precisely my previous post.
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I agree, with measles and mumps on the rise it is truly sad that these idiots walk the Earth.
Darwinian natural selection should take care of vaccine deniers. Or at least, it will help to prevent their dumb-ass genes polluting the gene-pool..... :P
That is true but there are the unsuspecting innocents that may spread diseases because their guardians didn't get them shots.
The US just recently had its first measles death in some time; she was a woman with an immune deficiency. That's the other kind of people at risk from vaccine deniers. As well as a friend from high school's son, who still isn't old enough for the MMR but got measles from the Disneyland outbreak. Naturally, there are now videos on YouTube claiming that my friend and his wife and son are all actors trying to brainwash people into getting vaccinated for reasons. Now, I freely concede that my friend is an actor; we first met more than twenty years ago, when he was playing Rooster in his junior high production of Annie. However, his wife is a nurse and his son is legitimately his son who legitimately had measles.
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I have a friend who thinks there are "unanswered questions." The irritating part is that she's a scientist and has fallen for the "no melting steel" bit.
Still, my favourite (and I wish I could remember whose idea this one was) has long been the exploding rebar idea.
I found a YT video made by a group of architects that said basically the same thing. Their theory was thermite planted on the inside. Up until this video I was totally unaware of any conspiracy views of 9/11.
Do you have links to some debunking information, especially the melting steel?
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Best place I know of to find resources is the International Skeptic's Forum (formerly James Randi's Educational Forum, or JREF). Resources: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=18
Discussion: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64
However, discussion these days consists of trolls and irredeemably delusional idiots; there is basically nothing else left.
Issues with thermite (or thermate, a similar material) are that it's an incendiary, not an explosive (which means the timing required for demolition isn't present); its burning gives a very bright light; and there's no evidence for it being placed, present, or in the debris pile afterwards (despite a "scholarly" paper to the contrary: it's littered with errors).
There is no evidence for melting steel; there is some evidence that there were molten materials of other compositions, such as lead or aluminum. Witness quotes tend to say "molten steel" to mean either "any molten metal" (and many metals have melting temperatures easily reached in fires) or "softened" (i.e. bent by heat) metals - again not necessarily steel.
The generally accepted mechanism (in a nutshell, planes weakened structure, caused massive multi-storey fires, fires weakened the structure to collapse - and collapse, once started, will not arrest) is well supported and accepted internationally by all countries' safety engineers. It's also accepted by the vast majority of engineering professionals in the relevant disciplines.
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Seems like one could train a spectrograph at the molten metal videos and get a rough chemical composition. At least maybe eliminating steel as the component. As with all conspiracies, a little knowledge may lead to completely incorrect/unsubstantiated view points.
Anyway, thanks I'll give them some reading.
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I don't think a spectrograph would work. Solids and liquids, unlike plasma, emit black-body radiation, as far as I know. What's more, the materials in question are very likely to be a witches brew of everything from metals, other inorganics, burnt plastics, and whatever else was in the fire.
The truthers do try to claim that they can determine temperature - and even composition - from photographs. Problem there is even worse: you don't know what the original camera's colour fidelity was like, not to mention what's been done to the picture afterwords (e.g. JPEG compression) - and then viewing it on an uncalibrated monitor. Composition is right out, too (one of the regulars at ISF posts a picture of fire cinders falling off a cliff - it looks like molten metal due to exposure and colour reproduction).
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Seems like one could train a spectrograph at the molten metal videos and get a rough chemical composition. At least maybe eliminating steel as the component. As with all conspiracies, a little knowledge may lead to completely incorrect/unsubstantiated view points.
Anyway, thanks I'll give them some reading.
You'd get the composition of the screen.
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Yeah, I overlooked that. Spectography only works on actual materials; a reproduction of an image is necessarily altered (it only produces an approximation of what the human eye would see, and even then there's the issue I mentioned above of colour fidelity in the entire capture, processing, and reproduction chain). It also may use non-visible light, such as infrared. Pointing it at a screen or other reproduction is basically a non-starter.
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Actually I was referring to videos, not film. It seemed likely that the color signature would be recorded and then be able to analyze the spectrum. But if you guys don't think it would work, ok by me.
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Actually I was referring to videos, not film. It seemed likely that the color signature would be recorded and then be able to analyze the spectrum. But if you guys don't think it would work, ok by me.
Same argument applies. The video recording device, codecs applied and screen reproducing the video will not accurately reproduce anything spectrographic.
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Actually I was referring to videos, not film. It seemed likely that the color signature would be recorded and then be able to analyze the spectrum. But if you guys don't think it would work, ok by me.
A spectrometer looks for lots of discrete wavelengths characteristic of specific materials. Film or a color TV camera can be thought of as a spectrometer, but one that (like the eye) looks only at three very broad spectral ranges (red, green, blue). In some cases this might be enough to identify a material, but certainly not in general. Consider how hard it can often be to distinguish brass from bronze from gold just by eye.