Author Topic: Saturn seperation  (Read 6532 times)

Offline QuietElite

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Saturn seperation
« on: June 23, 2016, 08:25:03 PM »
Hello guys  :D
Does anyone of you know footage that shows the stage seperation from the Saturn rocket family besides the famous stage sep footage of Apollo 4 ?
I know that I saw footage from another flight a long time ago and also saw today some footage that presumably shows an Saturn I stage seperation in Bob Fitch's video "1964 History of Spaceflight in RSS / Project Alexandria-11 / KSP 1.0.4" at 4:17min from his Project Alexandria Youtube series ( a great series by the way if you are interested in the history of spaceflight that uses KSP for visualization).
However I couldnt locate any footage yet and hope that some of you know more about that.

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3789
    • Clavius
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 06:44:15 PM »
I know other footage exists, but I'm not sure right now where to find it.  Not all Saturn Vs were instrumented with film cameras.  The second-stage ullage burn (as seem from the discarded S-IC) is the distinguishing visual factor -- 3 at 120-degree intervals versus 2 at 180-degree intervals around the circumference.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline VQ

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 07:50:05 PM »
Just to be clear you are asking about space-based footage not telescopic ground-based footage of the separations, correct?

Offline QuietElite

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 09:02:17 PM »
Just to be clear you are asking about space-based footage not telescopic ground-based footage of the separations, correct?
Yes footage from the rocket itself during flight.

Offline bknight

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3107
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 09:47:14 PM »
The documentation says this is from A 6, but I can't confirm that.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline ka9q

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3014
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 10:41:56 PM »
I know other footage exists, but I'm not sure right now where to find it.  Not all Saturn Vs were instrumented with film cameras.  The second-stage ullage burn (as seem from the discarded S-IC) is the distinguishing visual factor -- 3 at 120-degree intervals versus 2 at 180-degree intervals around the circumference.
If you're referring to the famous clip of a S-IVB pulling away, that's not from a Saturn V, so it can't be from a S-IC. It was at the top of the S-IB first stage in a Saturn IB launch. The upper stage with the 3 ullage rockets was the S-IVB-200, the S-IB model without restart capability.

Offline QuietElite

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2016, 09:24:56 AM »
The documentation says this is from A 6, but I can't confirm that.

Thank you, but I forget to include that in my first comment.  ::)
I am searching for footages apart from the seperation that was filmed from the 2nd stage that I already mentioned in the first comment as well as this footage in the quote that shows the seperation from a S-IVB stage that was filmed from the jettisoned stage.On the internet you can't really find any other footage except this two famous shots, but I know that there were more than that.
The film that I mentioned in my first comment shows an S-IV stage with 6 RL-10 engines, so the footage comes from a early Saturn I launch.

Offline onebigmonkey

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1583
  • ALSJ Clown
    • Apollo Hoax Debunked
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 04:47:49 AM »
Apollo 4 and 6 both filmed the separation - I did a piece on the weather in shot of both of them :)

The famous shot of the separation looking upwards was AS-202.

Offline Obviousman

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 07:28:32 PM »
I can check "The Mighty Saturns" if you like....

Offline Obviousman

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 737
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 04:43:27 AM »
The Mighty Saturns has Apollo 4 and 6 (as well as all the other Saturn V launches).

Apollo 4: "Three separate views, including TV feed and camera pod footage showing first stage separation."

Apollo 6: "Four different views including TV feed, two tower cameras and footage from aboard the spacecraft."


Offline onebigmonkey

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1583
  • ALSJ Clown
    • Apollo Hoax Debunked
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 04:54:37 AM »
Apollo 4



Apollo 6


Offline ka9q

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3014
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 07:23:35 AM »
The second section of the Apollo 4 video (the S-IVB separation sequence) is mislabeled. It is NOT from a Saturn V, but from a Saturn IB, specifically AS-202.

Offline onebigmonkey

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1583
  • ALSJ Clown
    • Apollo Hoax Debunked
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 08:39:50 AM »
The second section of the Apollo 4 video (the S-IVB separation sequence) is mislabeled. It is NOT from a Saturn V, but from a Saturn IB, specifically AS-202.

It usually is :)

I looked at the weather formations visible at the end of the sequence as it tumbles and tracked them down to a view over Florida on the date of AS-202's launch, which matches exactly what should be visible at the time of separation.

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/CATM/ch4/leo/c4_10_1.html

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3789
    • Clavius
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 09:49:36 AM »
If you're referring to the famous clip of a S-IVB pulling away, that's not from a Saturn V, so it can't be from a S-IC. It was at the top of the S-IB first stage in a Saturn IB launch. The upper stage with the 3 ullage rockets was the S-IVB-200, the S-IB model without restart capability.

I can't remember which clip I'm thinking of, but I wager you're right.  The key point being that the number of ullage rockets tells you which model of the S-IVB you're looking at from the spent stage.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Peter B

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1274
Re: Saturn seperation
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 12:27:16 PM »
Apollo 4



Apollo 6



Thanks for the Apollo 6 video - that was particularly interesting, given its, er, interesting S-II trajectory.

Could someone please explain what the red plot from about 2m58s represents? And was that being replayed at normal speed or was it sped up? Also, the image from about 6m15s of the CM moving from left to right: was that an animation or did they also have a camera on the SM watching the CM separation? (I assume the former.)
Ecosia - the greenest way to search. You find what you need, Ecosia plants trees where they're needed. www.ecosia.org