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1
The Hoax Theory / Re: Conclusive Proof the Moon Landings were Faked
« Last post by jfb on Today at 10:12:09 AM »
Why won't he answer?

I'm an admitted rookie on all of this.   


I'll say it again -- you spent an afternoon skimming through "Chess for Dummies" and are now convinced you could beat Kasparov in less than 20 moves.  You don't know what you don't know, and son, you don't know a lot

You're arguing with subject matter experts in fields of aerospace engineering, telecommunications, geology, photography, computer programming, etc., but somehow your 10 minutes of skimming the internet gives you an advantage over decades of study and practice.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Last post by TimberWolfAu on Today at 08:14:30 AM »
"Chief of Security for a Hangar -- isn't a HUGE title....  It just means "hey Staff Sergeant, you've been put in charge of security for this hangar"

You appear to be the only one claiming he was "chief of security for a hanger" (why would individual hangers need a specific security chief?)

From Bart Sibrel's 'Moon Man' (my personal copy);
"This original direct eyewitness of the Apollo deception, now deceased, was the Chief of Security at the United States military base where the staged Apollo 11 Moon landing was secretly filmed."
"This Air Force Military Police Chief..."
"Below are fifteen names of visitors that the Chief of Security at Cannon Air Force Base..."
" The names are listed below in the exact same order as they originally appeared on the list that I received from the Chief of Security at Cannon Air Force Base."
"When the Chief of Security of Cannon Air Force Base saw the..."

Given how many times Sibrel had to repeat it, I wonder if he's trying to convince his readers, or himself.

I did like this part though;
"They threatened his life, and the lives of his family, if he ever spoke to me again." So, naturally, what does Sibrel do...... why he contacts people in the FBI and government, you know, those people who if they found out, would kill Akers and family.
"In order to protect this individual, I notified the FBI, a United States Senator [who Bart? Why wont you tell us? Is it so we can't check your claims?] on the Intelligence Committee, and the White House Press Secretary."
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Sand Falls too Fast.
« Last post by Mag40 on Today at 07:47:45 AM »
Where has the ground splatter gone?
@najak - where has it gone?

I shall answer as you are too afraid to. It was the dust from the visible parabola. When he jumped the first time he kicked soil forwards. The visible parabola isn't on his second jump.

So, have you the 100% integrity to confirm this?

This najak guy is acting the goat!

Where has the ground splatter gone? Your "100% integrity" claim appears to be more "100% evasion"

You are still running away from this post which largely remains unanswered and what answers you have given are really poor.

https://apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=2019.msg58679#msg58679
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Last post by onebigmonkey on Today at 07:12:30 AM »
#1: His dad did not make a death bed confession. It never happened. He wasn't even head of security there, just a sergeant. Bart's story is just that: a story. Like the rest of his autobiography, it's a work of fiction.
#2: No astronaut will ever come out and make any such confession, because those astronauts went to the moon.
#1: Bart is a story teller for sure.   But this dead guy, seems authentic.

"seems"
 
Based on?

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Clovis checks out -- odd to own a home and not live in it - but this is your assumption...?

But not unusual.

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You showed a pic from 1943 -- 25 yrs before the alleged filming of A11/12.  <-- you High integrity website should say this.

The list of people with editorial control over my website is very short. You are not on it. I make no claim that the images shown represent the base in 1968. There is one lower down the page that is much more contemporary. Use that.

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As of 1968, they had planes there, but no hangers?

Who said they had no hangars. Go to the 1965 image. There are lots. Which is the one they used to supposedly film Apollo?

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For A11/12 - the hanger size would relatively small.   A12 - conveniently had no video camera to carry around... so that would have made this one easier.

Which hangar is the one? Define how big it needs to be.

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The 14 names are oddly specific.

Aren't they just. You'd need to ask Bart why he fabricated the list.

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"Chief of Security for a Hangar -- isn't a HUGE title....  It just means "hey Staff Sergeant, you've been put in charge of security for this hangar"

That isn't the claim being made. The claim is that he was chief of base security.

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I don't see the gain for this dead guy... don't see HIS motive to lie.

Follow Bart's money.

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#2: If Aldrin confesses, would you accept it, or call him senile?

Moot point. It won 't happen because he went to the moon.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Sand Falls too Fast.
« Last post by Kiwi on Today at 06:31:46 AM »
Ah, missed that - these photos are two separate jumps.
You could have already learned that from post 151 where you were told twice, on the the very first line and in the excerpts from the journal where Eric Jones described each jump for your benefit.

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When you see the photo with the noticeable dust above the boot - what is your conclusion?
Sigh. Which photo, which boot? Apollo is mostly all about precision and even extreme precision, so stop being so vague. But even once I know, I might not jump to any conclusion,

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I'm not seeing the other dust you are mentioning.  Care snip the photo part and mark it?
No, my time and abilities are severely limited by the terminal disease Oldfartitis. I downloaded the biggest photos, opened them side-by-side in separate screens of Irfanview, positioned them both identically, and looked at them at up to 315% magnification.  Besides, you have already wasted my time, so I'm reluctant to do it if I could.

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This Navy Salute, doesn't look good for the Apollogists IMO.
I don't know what you mean, but wonder if you know that the spacesuits had internal links and cables that helped most movements, but could inhibit others. You can read about that above in post 151 about what Young did with his right arm so he could salute.

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The sidewards Jump example, so close up -- needs even worse.
You've completely lost me with that one. It's incomprehensible to me. Can anyone else understand it?
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Lunar Launches - Too Fast
« Last post by najak on Today at 06:30:18 AM »
@JayUTAH - so do you have some professional Fluid Dynamic software to help model this?

I don't know what principles to apply for the various factors and concerns at play here, to do any meaningful calculations.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qYtfrOghTwQ-C3sxMIerEGokdxFqFdM32_NX-TmpELs/edit?usp=sharing

Here the only thing I'm a little confident on is the "expected Pressure Thrust equivalent, but this is based upon a presumption that this pressure is PROPORTIONAL to the equivalent aperture under the AM...  Since this pressure is able to fan out after that, not sure if true fluid dynamic result would approximate this assumption or not.

So my calculation seems to be "the MOST it could be"... I think..  You should be able to confirm this, I hope.

So this calculation shows that at 6 inches off the ground, the extra thrust from this "static pressure" drops below the requires "extra 2.2 m/s^2" to match the observed launch acceleration.

By 1 foot off the ground, Static pressure thrust, drops to 1.1 m/s^2 contribution (only +36%, not +72%)

By 2 feet, it's down to +0.58 m/s^2 contribution... (+19%, vs +72%)

So in short, after 6 inches high - the amount that this added "Static Pressure" can add to acceleration falls below the required thrust maintain the +72% thrust -- and THIS assumes we have full Momentum Thrust of 3 m/s^2 in effect at this 6"...   Not likely with all of the backpressure.

Just from this estimate alone -- I'm not seeing a path forward where this "Static Pressure" is capable of providing the needed +72% thrust beyond the 6" above the ground point (15 centimeters!)

So what helps it to do the other 1.65 meters?

I'll revisit some image analysis soon, to see if sense can be made here.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Last post by Jason Thompson on Today at 06:15:43 AM »

Clovis checks out -- odd to own a home and not live in it

Odd to own a home and not live in it? Seriously? You know what a landlord is, right?

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A12 - conveniently had no video camera to carry around... so that would have made this one easier.

Quite a jump there. Apollo 12 did have a TV camera. Why do you think it didn't?

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I don't see the gain for this dead guy... don't see HIS motive to lie.

First, if the story was told by Bart Sibrel, the original guy doesn't need a motive since it's questionable if he even made this confession in the first place. Bart is a serial liar and known for being far more interested in making a name for himself and making money than in anything resembling the truth (and that is a conclusion I have partly based on my own direct communication with the man, just in case you think I'm just parroting a line here). Second, money is a pretty good motivator, especially for some anonymous guy on the periphery who maybe just wants a bit of notoriety.

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#2: If Aldrin confesses, would you accept it, or call him senile?

IF he makes such a confession, it still doesn't topple the huge mountain of evidence that Apollo happened as described. It would be a far more plausible notion that he made such a confession 'for shits and giggles' than that it carried any evidentiary weight.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched
« Last post by najak on Today at 05:41:43 AM »
#1: His dad did not make a death bed confession. It never happened. He wasn't even head of security there, just a sergeant. Bart's story is just that: a story. Like the rest of his autobiography, it's a work of fiction.
#2: No astronaut will ever come out and make any such confession, because those astronauts went to the moon.
#1: Bart is a story teller for sure.   But this dead guy, seems authentic.
Clovis checks out -- odd to own a home and not live in it - but this is your assumption...?
You showed a pic from 1943 -- 25 yrs before the alleged filming of A11/12.  <-- you High integrity website should say this.
As of 1968, they had planes there, but no hangers?
For A11/12 - the hanger size would relatively small.   A12 - conveniently had no video camera to carry around... so that would have made this one easier.
The 14 names are oddly specific.
"Chief of Security for a Hangar -- isn't a HUGE title....  It just means "hey Staff Sergeant, you've been put in charge of security for this hangar"
I don't see the gain for this dead guy... don't see HIS motive to lie.

#2: If Aldrin confesses, would you accept it, or call him senile?
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Sand Falls too Fast.
« Last post by najak on Today at 05:22:01 AM »
....
Ah, missed that - these photos are two separate jumps.  I thought it was another "fast firing Hasselblad" case.

When you see the photo with the noticeable dust above the boot - what is your conclusion?

I'm not seeing the other dust you are mentioning.  Care snip the photo part and mark it?

Given how ray-tracing math works here -- If the dust appears above the boot - it must actually be a higher elevation than the boot - not just "in front of it"... this camera is ABOVE the boot, so if the dust is notably in front of the boot, then it must be EVEN HIGHER - because of how the camera-frustum ray tracing works.  If it was the SAME height as boot, it would appear below it.

Since it's above, to me this looks "inconclusive" at best -- and at worst, it looks like he launched the dust off the top on his way up (about half way - watching the video).

For all the dust that rose with him -- I'm not seeing much of anything here, except for the dust he launched from the top of his boot on the way up...

This Navy Salute, doesn't look good for the Apollogists IMO.

The sidewards Jump example, so close up -- needs even worse.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Hoax? - Sand Falls too Fast.
« Last post by Kiwi on Today at 04:50:31 AM »
Your timing was immaculate, thanks.  This high resolution photo shows no "dust parabola" between the feet - here we see no dust at all, at apex.

Have you not studied this stuff? Can you find the wire that's supposedly suspending John Young? I can only find his aerial, which is shaped like a carpenter's metal measuring tape and, in this case, is reflecting the black lunar sky. 

We can see very little dust in both photos because most of it is simply sunlit grey up in the vacuum against the same shade of sunlit grey in the background. What we most need to look for is light-coloured dust against darker background, or dark dust (either shaded or actually darker) against lighter background, and then, by comparing both photos, small amounts of it become visible.

Such as in the small bit of shade on the toes of Young's boots; against the shade of the lunar module to his right (our left); in the shade of the boot print from his right foot in the second photo, AS16-113-18340, which is almost obliterated by dust in 18339; in the shadow of Young's boot(s) on the ground.

Some of the dust has actually been caught in motion at a right angle to the camera's axis as the shutter went off, so is slightly streaked. In other cases it's frozen, or almost frozen. The little bit in AS16-113-18340 against the LM's shadow and surrounding some of the central fiducial (crosshair) might include tiny glass beads which seem to be reflecting circular greenish flares of the sunlight. On the other hand, those same formations might be a simple, rare, film or developing fault which I occasionally experienced back in the 1970s.

Here are the appropriate photo captions in plain text from the Apollo 16 Lunar Surface Journal Image Library. Go to the real thing for all the lovely links. I wonder if the red-blue anaglyphs might show more dust.

Apollo 16 Lunar Surface Journal Image Library
https://www.nasa.gov/history/alsj/a16/a16.html

AS16-113-18339 (OF300) (208k or 1300k)

120:25:42 John Young jumps off the ground and salutes for this superb tourist picture. He is off the ground about 1.45 seconds which, in the lunar gravity field, means that he launched himself at a velocity of about 1.17 m/s and reached a maximum height of 0.42 m. Although the suit and backpack weigh as much as he does, his total weight is only about 65 pounds (30 kg) and, to get this height, he only had to bend his knees slightly and then push up with his legs. In the background, we can see the UV astronomy camera, the flag, the LM, the Rover with the TV camera watching John, and Stone Mountain. Journal Contributor Joe Cannaday notes that high-point of John's first jump was at a time close to 120:25:49 and the second was almost exactly three seconds later.

AS16-113-18339/40 Stereo Images: red-blue anaglyph and a left-right image pair

These stereo images were created by Yuri Krasilnikov, who writes, "A bit of artistry was necessary to create credible stereo. In the left-right pair, Charlie captured John's first jump in 18339, which is on the right. In the original of 18340, we see that John isn't as far off the ground and is tilted to his left. In addition, there are footprints beneath him that he made when he landed after the first jump, a clear indication that John is closer to Charlie than he was in 18339. Creation of a credible anaglyph required removal of the image of John from 18340 and careful replacement with the image of John from 18339."

Yuri has also made a two-frame animation (1Mb) of John's jumps. John is more upright in 18339; and there are prominent footprints at his second launch point in 18340.

See, also, a red-blue anaglyph (1.9 Mb) created by Erik van Meihgaarden, who writes, "John did two jumping salutes for Charlie, who took a picture each time John was near the top of his jump. Consequently, we are seeing not only from two slightly different view points but, also, when he was at slightly different places. The TV recordings of these jumps show that John was on the LM side of the flag. Combination of images from the two different jumps creates the impression that John is on Charlie's side of the flag. John also looks like he's jumped more than the half meter he actually achieved. In comparison, because the flag wasn't touched or moved between the two jumps, our stereoview of it is completely legitimate.

AS16-113-18339-40 Red-Blue Anaglyph of the Flag, LRV, and LM (0.7Mb
Anaglyph by Yuri Krasilnikov.

AS16-113-18340 (OF300) (208k or 1300k)
120:25:42 John's second jump lasts about 1.30 seconds and, consequently, his launch velocity is about 1.05 m/s and his maximum height is 0.34 m.
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