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Apollo Discussions => The Reality of Apollo => Topic started by: onebigmonkey on June 08, 2015, 03:43:02 PM

Title: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 08, 2015, 03:43:02 PM
Once again hoaxers (hi Adrian and bewaremouse) prompt a search for information and a new source emerges. For info, it is a claim that somehow Apollo suits and other equipment were never tested in vacuum or at altitude.

What I found was 'Roundup', the in house newspaper for JSC employees. In amongst the news about golf tournaments, driving safely and who has retired/joined/died there are lots of valuable nuggets of information about the progress of the Apollo program, functions of various departments and so on that don't tend to make it into mainstream media.

I've been through the years 67-73 and picked out articles that are of interest for one reason or another - hopefully the article titles are a clue to the content:

http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/roundup.html

There's a link to one of the search pages at the top, and the dates should help you find the relevant pdf.

Shame the scans aren't of better quality, as some of the photos would be very interesting :)



Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Kiwi on June 09, 2015, 07:28:34 AM
Yes, I discovered the excellent Roundup newspapers a few years ago the same way you did - Googled a subject and got a link to one of them. Was astounded at the information they have and that I'd never heard of them before.

But now I have 391 of them from 1961 to 1976 saved on my hard drive. It's good to just browse them when at a loose end. Some of the people become much more than just a name, and we can learn about people and things we know little about or haven't even heard of.

They're no doubt another excellent source that HBs can mine for information about Lunar Orbiter, Ranger, Surveyor, Mercury, Gemini and Apollo that will "prove" the moonlandings were faked.  ::)

How would they explain away the article of 26 February 1971, "Over 40 million see moon rocks, visit space agency facilities"?

On the page in your link a stray "r" has found its way into Glynn Lunney's surname. "Lunnery."

Quote
Roundup
Vol. 10 No. 8 – February 26, 1971, page 2
Over 40 million see moon rocks, visit space agency facilities
   Over forty-one million people in the United States and abroad lined up in 1970 to look at samples of rocks brought back from the Moon by the crews of Apollo 11 and 12. Another two million visited NASA facilities in the United States.
   At EXPO '70 in Osaka, Japan, almost 14 million persons viewed a lunar rock sample which was one of the world fair's major exhibits.
   In the Unites States, the rock samples were shown at some 128 events covering all 50 states with a total attendance of 12 million. Thirty-seven states had an opportunity to display a sample as part of a 50-state tour of the Apollo 11 command module and a lunar sample. The tour is due to end in May with Hawaii and Alaska the last two stops.
   Outside the U.S., samples were shown to almost 30 million people in 110 countries.
   During 1970, about three million visitors were attracted to NASA centers across the country. The largest numbers of people visited Kennedy Space Center and MSC, each of which was host to well over a million guests.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 09, 2015, 11:22:49 AM
I spotted a few typos as soon as I'd posted here - I'll check for that one later.

I like any kind of contemporary media like this, mainly as an instant retort to "it was all secret", even down to such basic things as where to buy Apollo photos.

Newspapers may not have been detailing every little development, but the canteen staff at JSC knew all about it thanks to this.

What it made me realise was just how much was going on at any one time - as one Saturn was being rolled out to the pad, another was being built and another was going through testing. Skylab and the prototype  shuttle all in development while Apollo was active, all the various procedures and facilities for pre- and post-mission stuff being worked out - it must have been a hive of activity.

I particularly liked the story about the boiler plate CM being sunk by gunfire - somewhere off Hawaii there is a brilliant wreck to dive to!

Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: mako88sb on June 10, 2015, 04:11:58 PM
Once again hoaxers (hi Adrian and bewaremouse) prompt a search for information and a new source emerges. For info, it is a claim that somehow Apollo suits and other equipment were never tested in vacuum or at altitude.

Yeah, there's some nut on youtube  demanding a vacuum chamber demo of the suit because he finds it hard to believe the ice sublimation system works the way it's described. Since NASA hasn't accommodated him, he's decided that all the eva's from Apollo onward are fake. Of course when somebody gave him a link showing video of a test, he dismissed it as hogwash. Probably where Adrian got his info from.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: DD Brock on June 10, 2015, 09:20:34 PM
My memory on this is foggy, but didn't someone come very close to dying while testing a suit in a vaccuum chamber?
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Philthy on June 10, 2015, 09:57:17 PM
My memory on this is foggy, but didn't someone come very close to dying while testing a suit in a vaccuum chamber?

Found it, my "Google-Fu" isn't all that great.

http://www.universetoday.com/66061/early-nasa-vacuum-chamber-test-gone-wrong/\\

Phil
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: DD Brock on June 11, 2015, 02:15:30 AM
Yeah, that was what I thought. I recall that the tech who saved him actually entered the chamber a liitle too early and risked his own safety to get him out. I can't remember where I saw it/read it...
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Allan F on June 11, 2015, 09:28:53 AM
Yeah, that was what I thought. I recall that the tech who saved him actually entered the chamber a liitle too early and risked his own safety to get him out. I can't remember where I saw it/read it...

Probably in the tv-series "Moon Machines - The spacesuit". The incident is shown there.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 11, 2015, 01:14:26 PM
This edition mentions the commendations two employees received over that incident:

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/roundups/issues/67-01-06.pdf

Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: DD Brock on June 11, 2015, 02:25:26 PM
Yeah, that was what I thought. I recall that the tech who saved him actually entered the chamber a liitle too early and risked his own safety to get him out. I can't remember where I saw it/read it...

Probably in the tv-series "Moon Machines - The spacesuit". The incident is shown there.

Actually, I think you are right.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Allan F on June 11, 2015, 05:14:41 PM
It's on youtube - the test person was Jim LeBlanc - at around 33.50 in the video.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Sus_pilot on June 12, 2015, 09:18:28 PM
Btw, thanks for pointing out this series.  Watched it the other day and enjoyed it.  A little lightweight, but good. 

One error that I spotted: they said that the SPS used hydrogen and oxygen instead of hypergolics.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Allan F on June 12, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
Btw, thanks for pointing out this series.  Watched it the other day and enjoyed it.  A little lightweight, but good. 

One error that I spotted: they said that the SPS used hydrogen and oxygen instead of hypergolics.

Which part was that? The one about the Command Module?
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on June 13, 2015, 06:32:14 AM
Just had a quick eyeball, great reference material..
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Sus_pilot on June 13, 2015, 09:06:18 AM

Btw, thanks for pointing out this series.  Watched it the other day and enjoyed it.  A little lightweight, but good. 

One error that I spotted: they said that the SPS used hydrogen and oxygen instead of hypergolics.

Which part was that? The one about the Command Module?

Yes.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Luke Pemberton on June 21, 2015, 09:06:58 AM
Probably in the tv-series "Moon Machines - The spacesuit". The incident is shown there.

Beat me to it Allan. When reading the OP I recall an incident that was described in Moon Machines that definitely points to vacuum tests.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Luke Pemberton on June 21, 2015, 09:10:57 AM
Yeah, there's some nut on youtube  demanding a vacuum chamber demo of the suit because he finds it hard to believe the ice sublimation system works the way it's described.

The ice sublimation system exploits the vacuum (as we know). Ralph Rene did not understand this, and neither did Blunder Wonder when he parroted Ralph.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Zakalwe on June 21, 2015, 11:50:04 AM
Yeah, there's some nut on youtube  demanding a vacuum chamber demo of the suit because he finds it hard to believe the ice sublimation system works the way it's described.

The ice sublimation system exploits the vacuum (as we know). Ralph Rene did not understand this, and neither did Blunder Wonder when he parroted Ralph.

The classic logical fallacies of argument from disbelief (I find it difficult to understand, therefore it is not true) and argument from self belief (it it were true, then I would know about it. I don't know about it, therefore it must be false).
I can't imagine how a person could have an ego so large that it would stop them from learning new things.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 21, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
Yeah, there's some nut on youtube  demanding a vacuum chamber demo of the suit because he finds it hard to believe the ice sublimation system works the way it's described.

The ice sublimation system exploits the vacuum (as we know). Ralph Rene did not understand this, and neither did Blunder Wonder when he parroted Ralph.


The classic logical fallacies of argument from disbelief (I find it difficult to understand, therefore it is not true) and argument from self belief (it it were true, then I would know about it. I don't know about it, therefore it must be false).
I can't imagine how a person could have an ego so large that it would stop them from learning new things.

Followed rapidly by "I have questioned it, therefore it is questionable.."
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: bknight on August 01, 2015, 01:55:02 PM
Yeah, there's some nut on youtube  demanding a vacuum chamber demo of the suit because he finds it hard to believe the ice sublimation system works the way it's described.

The ice sublimation system exploits the vacuum (as we know). Ralph Rene did not understand this, and neither did Blunder Wonder when he parroted Ralph.
Did Rene understand anything?  From what I have read and viewed it wasn't much in the way of engineering/science for sure.  I can remember his rubber glove in the vacuum chamber.  To a casual observer it looked plausible, but when you think about the 14.6 psi difference versus the 3.8 psi usage, it all falls apart as most(all?) of Rene's thoughts.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: raven on August 01, 2015, 03:31:12 PM
Besides, doesn't every EVA suit in use, from the NASA EMU to the Russian Orlan to the Chinese Feitian space suit, use sublimation cooling?
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Allan F on August 01, 2015, 03:52:51 PM
The Apollo astronauts did complain about tired hands, because the gloves were hard to flex.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: ka9q on August 02, 2015, 02:24:14 PM
Did Rene understand anything?  From what I have read and viewed it wasn't much in the way of engineering/science for sure.  I can remember his rubber glove in the vacuum chamber.  To a casual observer it looked plausible, but when you think about the 14.6 psi difference versus the 3.8 psi usage, it all falls apart as most(all?) of Rene's thoughts.
All Rene did was to convincingly demonstrate why NASA doesn't use local hardware store gloves in EVA suits.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: bknight on August 02, 2015, 08:34:04 PM
The Apollo astronauts did complain about tired hands, because the gloves were hard to flex.
Yes, especially A 17, but that was probably because the length of stay and work loads.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Zakalwe on August 03, 2015, 02:13:38 AM
The Apollo astronauts did complain about tired hands, because the gloves were hard to flex.
Yes, especially A 17, but that was probably because the length of stay and work loads.

I think it was more to the design of the gloves and how inflexible they become when pressurised. After the frst EVA Cernan notes that his hands were rubbed raw.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: bknight on August 03, 2015, 07:34:51 AM
Yes, but I was thinking more of the total trauma, blisters blood under fingernails over the 3 EVA's
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: raven on August 04, 2015, 01:48:41 AM
I wonder if spacesuits might want to take a cue from atmospheric diving suits and have the hands inside the spacesuit controlling basically short waldos.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Zakalwe on August 04, 2015, 03:24:16 AM
I wonder if spacesuits might want to take a cue from atmospheric diving suits and have the hands inside the spacesuit controlling basically short waldos.

You're getting into a lot of complexity, I would have thought. Plus, the power requirements of the suit would go up a lot.

Gloves still represent a big problem as far as I can see:
http://www.space.com/9217-spacesuit-gloves-astronauts-fingernails-fall.html
In 2007, NASA awarded $200K to Pete Homer, winner of their Astronaut Glove Challenge:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11794-new-spacesuit-glove-beats-nasas-hands-down/
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: ka9q on August 04, 2015, 05:44:46 PM
Atmospheric diving suits have the much bigger challenge since the pressure differences across them can be huge. Spacesuits only need withstand about 260 mb or so, and much simpler solutions are feasible (though not necessarily easy).
 
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: bknight on August 05, 2015, 03:23:34 PM
Atmospheric diving suits have the much bigger challenge since the pressure differences across them can be huge. Spacesuits only need withstand about 260 mb or so, and much simpler solutions are feasible (though not necessarily easy).
I've gone brain challenged, what does 260 mb mean?
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: Cat Not Included on August 05, 2015, 03:41:07 PM
Atmospheric diving suits have the much bigger challenge since the pressure differences across them can be huge. Spacesuits only need withstand about 260 mb or so, and much simpler solutions are feasible (though not necessarily easy).
I've gone brain challenged, what does 260 mb mean?

I'm thinking in this contexts it refers to millibars.
Millibar: a unit of pressure frequently used in meteorology equal to one thousandth of a bar.
Title: Re: Johnson Space Center in-house newspaper
Post by: grmcdorman on August 05, 2015, 05:08:48 PM
Millibars.

1 millibar = 100 pascals

mil·li·bar
ˈmiləˌbär/
noun
noun: millibar; plural noun: millibars

    one thousandth of a bar, the cgs unit of atmospheric pressure equivalent to 100 pascals.

Oops. Nija'd.