91
The Reality of Apollo / Re: Video of crew of Apollo 12
« Last post by Peter B on August 23, 2025, 06:31:54 PM »That's brilliant! Thank you so much.
I've forwarded the YouTube link on.
I've forwarded the YouTube link on.
Recent Posts
92
The Hoax Theory / Re: Corona and Keyhole satellite imagery and the Apollo Detectives
« Last post by onebigmonkey on August 23, 2025, 12:34:00 PM »On doing some more research, I htink I need to correct my earlier criticism of Jarrah's claim about how lunar orbiter images were produced after transmission to Earth.
The example I showed was effectively what the the magnetic data tapes contain, and these were produced in parallel with the actual images.
The 35mm films themselves were produced by recording from a kinescope, which you could say is filming from a TV screen. More info in here (page 18)
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19670012120/downloads/19670012120.pdf
The example I showed was effectively what the the magnetic data tapes contain, and these were produced in parallel with the actual images.
The 35mm films themselves were produced by recording from a kinescope, which you could say is filming from a TV screen. More info in here (page 18)
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19670012120/downloads/19670012120.pdf
93
The Reality of Apollo / Re: Video of crew of Apollo 12
« Last post by LunarOrbit 🇨🇦 on August 23, 2025, 12:53:02 AM »I copied the quoted message into ChatGPT and it came up with this:
https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68a94973c6548191872edda2b8f19e6e
https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68a94973c6548191872edda2b8f19e6e
94
The Reality of Apollo / Video of crew of Apollo 12
« Last post by Peter B on August 22, 2025, 11:28:10 PM »I just saw this message on the Apollo 12 descent video on YT, and thought I'd share it in case anyone could help:
Is anyone aware of the video in question?
Quote
Someplace, somewhere, there is a video of Conrad, Bean, and Gordon sitting around a picnic table swapping tales and having a ball. It was filmed about 3 weeks before Pete Conrad's fatal motorcycle accident. I am 99.99% certain it aired on Speedvision sometime in the winter of 1999-2000. I have contacted Speedvision, NASA, Alan Bean's daughter, and Pete Conrad's wife. No joy. Let's put a big dragnet out and find that fascinating piece of history. (I was living on a boat and had no record capability, or I would be sharing it with the world.)
Is anyone aware of the video in question?
95
The Hoax Theory / Re: Corona and Keyhole satellite imagery and the Apollo Detectives
« Last post by onebigmonkey on August 22, 2025, 12:55:21 AM »Another aspect of that argument is the idea that if something isn't on the Internet it doesn't exist. They find it difficult to comprehend that there are these old fashioned paper things that people just haven't got round to digitising yet, or even that the original documents were of such esoteric and specialist interest they weren't deemed worthy of shelf space, let alone the time it takes to scan them. Their purpose was served, there's no need to keep them.
At least this topic provided an interesting diversion where I was able to learn something, even if the catalyst for it aren't prepared to.
At least this topic provided an interesting diversion where I was able to learn something, even if the catalyst for it aren't prepared to.
96
The Hoax Theory / Re: Corona and Keyhole satellite imagery and the Apollo Detectives
« Last post by Peter B on August 21, 2025, 06:29:09 PM »And just to demonstrate that actually yes, they did test stuff...
This reminds me of something I see so often from hoax believers: they seem to have no awareness of the idea that NASA would test equipment in realistic environmental conditions to look for issues they needed to address.
"How did they know [item X] would work in the heat/cold/vacuum?"
"Um, they literally tested it in heat/cold/vacuum. It's not like they sent untested equipment off with the astronauts and hoped for the best."
= = = =
It's interesting that I find this attitude more widely, that people will ask a question thinking they've made some sort of gotcha point. Yet it's clear that they've done no research.
One example I've seen recently is on Dave McKeegan's year-old video "People think Apollo didn't have enough fuel to get to the Moon." There's been a rash of comments in the last few days from people all saying "Elon Musk says they'll need 8 rockets to get a mission to the Moon." It's clear in this case that they're just parroting a claim made by Bart Sibrel on a Danny Jones video. It's just as clear they're completely unaware of the differences between Apollo and Artemis.
Similarly, the number of people who ask how the lunar rover was carried to the Moon, or how the liftoff of the Apollo 17 was videoed, without making even the most cursory search to find out, is somewhere between amusing and disturbing.
But I also see this 'reflex skepticism' in what might seem like fairly mundane subjects. I recently saw a video short labelled 'How the Drip Rifle worked' describing a process to fire a bolt-action rifle without a human pulling the trigger - by having water drip into a can which hung by string from the trigger. Comment after comment says "but as it's a bolt action rifle it will only fire once", as though they've made some killer refutation. But all people would need to do is search the term 'drip rifle' to find out where it was used, and why (during the evacuation of Gallipoli in December 1915).
97
The Hoax Theory / Re: Corona and Keyhole satellite imagery and the Apollo Detectives
« Last post by onebigmonkey on August 20, 2025, 06:06:47 PM »And just to demonstrate that actually yes, they did test stuff:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19730009710/downloads/19730009710.pdf
"When cameras and films must operate in high vacuum, camera lubricants are required which will not poison the vacuum environment if the camera is exposed to the full vacuum. Cameras have been used directly in vacuum, and in certain applications they have been enclosed in housings in which a partial pressure of air or nitrogen has been maintained. Few problems occur with respect to film exposure or its sensitivity in a vacuum. The major problems have been the generation of static, particularly with the high-speed cameras. In general, these problems are avoided by correct selection and treatment of film."
and
"In planning the Apollo missions, a hermetically sealed magazine was considered to maintain a suitable environment for the film. Many years of experience had included the use of photographic film in vacuum systems such as electron microscopy and electron beam recording, and this experience indicated that the disturbance caused by the vacuum environment should not prove too serious. This was confirmed by tests of extended exposure to vacuum conditions, and the Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 missions were carried out with a conventional unsealed magazine. Thus the film was exposed to the high-vacuum lunar environment. The results of these missions substantiated the validity of this decision and of the earlier observations."
And in several experiments on film in a vacuum chamber reported here:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19680010273/downloads/19680010273.pdf
No significant impacts on the films were found.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19730009710/downloads/19730009710.pdf
"When cameras and films must operate in high vacuum, camera lubricants are required which will not poison the vacuum environment if the camera is exposed to the full vacuum. Cameras have been used directly in vacuum, and in certain applications they have been enclosed in housings in which a partial pressure of air or nitrogen has been maintained. Few problems occur with respect to film exposure or its sensitivity in a vacuum. The major problems have been the generation of static, particularly with the high-speed cameras. In general, these problems are avoided by correct selection and treatment of film."
and
"In planning the Apollo missions, a hermetically sealed magazine was considered to maintain a suitable environment for the film. Many years of experience had included the use of photographic film in vacuum systems such as electron microscopy and electron beam recording, and this experience indicated that the disturbance caused by the vacuum environment should not prove too serious. This was confirmed by tests of extended exposure to vacuum conditions, and the Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 missions were carried out with a conventional unsealed magazine. Thus the film was exposed to the high-vacuum lunar environment. The results of these missions substantiated the validity of this decision and of the earlier observations."
And in several experiments on film in a vacuum chamber reported here:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19680010273/downloads/19680010273.pdf
No significant impacts on the films were found.
98
The Hoax Theory / Re: AI making debunking harder...
« Last post by onebigmonkey on August 20, 2025, 04:49:57 AM »I notice tha Apollo Detectives are using AI to generate little movies obviously generated from interpolated hasselblad stills. I actually quite like them, but it would be easy for someone who didn't know the source to mistake them as genuine.
AI is increasingly being hailed as some sort of perfect source of information by people incapable of paraphrasing a book or journal article themselves, and often people are unable to tell whether the AI is correct. It often isn't.
AI is increasingly being hailed as some sort of perfect source of information by people incapable of paraphrasing a book or journal article themselves, and often people are unable to tell whether the AI is correct. It often isn't.
99
The Hoax Theory / Re: Corona and Keyhole satellite imagery and the Apollo Detectives
« Last post by onebigmonkey on August 20, 2025, 04:36:47 AM »All Allen has is a stock collection of well worn phrases and facts that he can pepper a conversation with in order to sound more educated about it than he actually is.
Anyway, back to the substance of the AD video. In amongst the personal incredulity, zoo running methology, and bizarre claims (they are amazed that they can't see snow, and that must be because the snow looks black from radiation damaged film, not because it's August), there are basic factual errors.
Jarrah claims that the lunar orbiter images transmitted to the public were photographed off TV screens, and it was only when you got the LOIRP images that high quality ones. Not true, and any one of the many Lunar Oribter documents available would have told him otherwise if he'd read them.
Images scanned by the probes in lunar orbit sent their signals to Earth. The signal was then exposed on 35mm film strips. Those strips were then assembled and photographed, eg from https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunarorbiter/documents/LO_DUNOTES.pdf.
“The video signal received on Earth was fed into the ground reconstruction electronics (GRE) where it was converted into an intensity modulated line on the face of a cathode ray tube. This line was used to expose 35-mm in a continuous motion camera to reconstruct the framelets…the video signal was also recorded on magnetic tapes which were subsequently used to make additional 35-mm framelets.”
The attached shows an example.
Anyway, back to the substance of the AD video. In amongst the personal incredulity, zoo running methology, and bizarre claims (they are amazed that they can't see snow, and that must be because the snow looks black from radiation damaged film, not because it's August), there are basic factual errors.
Jarrah claims that the lunar orbiter images transmitted to the public were photographed off TV screens, and it was only when you got the LOIRP images that high quality ones. Not true, and any one of the many Lunar Oribter documents available would have told him otherwise if he'd read them.
Images scanned by the probes in lunar orbit sent their signals to Earth. The signal was then exposed on 35mm film strips. Those strips were then assembled and photographed, eg from https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunarorbiter/documents/LO_DUNOTES.pdf.
“The video signal received on Earth was fed into the ground reconstruction electronics (GRE) where it was converted into an intensity modulated line on the face of a cathode ray tube. This line was used to expose 35-mm in a continuous motion camera to reconstruct the framelets…the video signal was also recorded on magnetic tapes which were subsequently used to make additional 35-mm framelets.”
The attached shows an example.
100
The Hoax Theory / AI making debunking harder...
« Last post by Jason Thompson on August 20, 2025, 04:02:23 AM »Not directly related to the hoax arguments, but I just saw a post on social media purporting to describe the awesome Saturn V rocket that opens with an obvious AI fake video. The Saturn V was more or less right but it was lifting off between two launch umbilical towers on an absurdly oversized flame trench.
If even people expounding the awesomeness of the Apollo programme are going to resort to AI fakery in their presentations (which is ridiculous considering the ready availability of actual footage), conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day....
If even people expounding the awesomeness of the Apollo programme are going to resort to AI fakery in their presentations (which is ridiculous considering the ready availability of actual footage), conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day....