Apollo 1

[Zakalwe]

49 years ago, on the 27th January, Grissom, Chaffee and White lost their lives.




I remember visiting the KSC complex a few years back and standing on the pad where the Saturn stood.



In the background a Delta was being prepped for launch. I remember feeling such mixed emotions, that the site of their death was crumbling into dust, that their sacrifice had lead to one of the highlights of human existence and how the legacy of the program was humankind shrinking back on itself and being content with restricting itself to Low Earth Orbit.






It was a very poignant moment for me, with a real tumbling of emotions.

[bknight]

Al visit would have brought a thoughtful moment to me for sure.  And tragic as it was,the accident probably provided the necessary changes  that allowed a successful mission.

[Ishkabibble]

I've been there.

I stood right beneath the center of the pad, burst into tears, and couldn't catch my breath.

I can't help remember what Deke said.

"If there hadn't been a fire, the first man on the moon wouldn't have been named Neil. He would have been named Gus."

I like to think that Gus, Ed, and Roger were there anyway. If it hadn't been for them, and for what happened to them, we might not have gotten there.

[smartcooky]

It was almost "lucky" that this happened when it did. Had they gotten away with the shoddy practices that went into building the Apollo 1 capsule, that fire might have happened in orbit...then Gus, Edward and Roger  would have been incinerated in an orbiting tomb... what kind of effect would that have had on the Apollo Programme?

It is however, somewhat dismaying that the lessons of Apollo 1 were not learned later in other programmes. With the Space Shuttle, it was known that there were problems with the O-Rings as early as STS-2, but they flew on, getting away with it for another 22 times until the Challenger disaster in 1986. Then again, it was known that there were problems with the foam insulation on the main tank breaking off and striking the Orbiter during launch, but they flew on until it came back to bit them with Columbia, and another seven astronauts lost their lives.     

The key learnings from all these incident is that you cannot simply ignore technical problems; they aren't going to go away by themselves. You might be lucky for a while, but that will NOT last.

[Zakalwe]

Very true. The thing is that NASA knew the dangers of 100% pure oxygen. The Gemini simulator fire nearly cost the lives of two test pilots 5 years earlier.

[bknight]

With the budgetary constraints that NASA has, management has, as history points out, sacrifices safety for perceived goal achievement.

[Zakalwe]

Budget wasn't that much of an issue so early in the program.
They were aware of the dangers of 100% oxygen environments, but chose to ignore those dangers. They should have caught the problems, but were consumed with "Go fever".
Smartcooky is right though, if the fire had happened later in the program then it may have been a death knell for Apollo. Similarly, if Apollo 8 had the failure that 13 had, then that probably would have killed it dead too.

[bknight]

Budget wasn't that much of an issue so early in the program.
They were aware of the dangers of 100% oxygen environments, but chose to ignore those dangers. They should have caught the problems, but were consumed with "Go fever".
Smartcooky is right though, if the fire had happened later in the program then it may have been a death knell for Apollo. Similarly, if Apollo 8 had the failure that 13 had, then that probably would have killed it dead too.

Yes, early on money flowed fast and furious, but beginning in 1967 the budgets began to drop causing the MO I referenced.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/feb/01/nasa-budgets-us-spending-space-travel
I'm not sure that an in flight death (Even A8) would have caused the program to cease.  A board to investigate and possible changes to equipment/procedures may have been changed.  The Shuttle accidents are a history look back, no termination, just revised operations. Just our opinions of course.

[Jason Thompson]

It was almost "lucky" that this happened when it did. Had they gotten away with the shoddy practices that went into building the Apollo 1 capsule, that fire might have happened in orbit...then Gus, Edward and Roger  would have been incinerated in an orbiting tomb... what kind of effect would that have had on the Apollo Programme?

I'm not sure that's true. In orbit the spacecraft would only have had pure oxygen at 5psi, so the fire would not have propagated as quickly, and, assuming they had their suits on and sealed, they could always just depressurise the cabin to put it out if needed. On the ground they had about 17psi pure oxygen and opening a valve at sea level would only have dropped it to 15psi, still allowng the fire to burn. It would have been an annoying and potentially lethal situation in orbit but not the guaranteed death sentence that the fire on the ground was.

[smartcooky]

It was almost "lucky" that this happened when it did. Had they gotten away with the shoddy practices that went into building the Apollo 1 capsule, that fire might have happened in orbit...then Gus, Edward and Roger  would have been incinerated in an orbiting tomb... what kind of effect would that have had on the Apollo Programme?

I'm not sure that's true. In orbit the spacecraft would only have had pure oxygen at 5psi, so the fire would not have propagated as quickly, and, assuming they had their suits on and sealed, they could always just depressurise the cabin to put it out if needed. On the ground they had about 17psi pure oxygen and opening a valve at sea level would only have dropped it to 15psi, still allowng the fire to burn. It would have been an annoying and potentially lethal situation in orbit but not the guaranteed death sentence that the fire on the ground was.

Remember that while oxygen supports combustion, it is not of itself flammable. The Apollo 1 capsule was velcro city and AFAIK, velcro is very inflammable, even under a partial pressure of 5 psi.

Also, I'm not sure the crew could have depressurised the cabin on Apollo 1. If a fire started inside the cabin, the pressure inside would rise very quickly. The cabin vent valve might not have a sufficient flow rate. Also, Grissom was unable to open it during the fire.

[ka9q]

Fires do behave rather differently without gravity to keep thermal convection going.

But I wouldn't bet my life on it.

[raven]

I know you can listen to the final transmissions, but . . . I am sorry, I can't do it. I can't listen to someone die.

[Sus_pilot]

I know you can listen to the final transmissions, but . . . I am sorry, I can't do it. I can't listen to someone die.

I have a friend that is a professional aviation accident investigator in the private sector.  I've asked him about this and he acknowledges that it's the hardest part of the job, even harder than looking at photos that the public usually doesn't get to see. 

[raven]

It was said in 'Lost Moon' that, even if NASA had lucked out and not had any deaths up until then, it would have absolutely killed Apollo 13, as all the condensation would have shorted things out, when they tried to boot the Command Module back up near the end of the journey.

[Dalhousie]

With the budgetary constraints that NASA has, management has, as history points out, sacrifices safety for perceived goal achievement.

Everybody has budgetary constraints and nothing is perfectly safe.  In the end you do the best job you can with the information and resources available.