Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.

[Bryanpoprobson]

I think a lot of the so-called flat-earthers don't actually believe it but pursue the idea as a kind of pseudo-intellectual exercise to prove how clever they are and how poor they believe conventional science is. It's a way of proving not so much that the earth is flat but that it revolves around them, which is where tradosaurus came in.

I think you're spot on with that assessment.

A lot of the Moon Hoax old guard (Jarrah included) believe that Flat-Earthers are trying to make the "Moon Hoax" cause, a laughing stock and that NASA (or the CIA, or the Government, or whoever) is behind it all.

[raven]

Didn't at least a few try to claim about our old 'friend' Bart 'Punching Bag' Sibrel, after it was shown rather handedly that he lied about the 'cutout/porthole' claim, with a later portion the very same transmission showing it to be a rounded edge quadrilateral with the Earth still in view.

[DD Brock]

I think a lot of the so-called flat-earthers don't actually believe it but pursue the idea as a kind of pseudo-intellectual exercise to prove how clever they are and how poor they believe conventional science is. It's a way of proving not so much that the earth is flat but that it revolves around them, which is where tradosaurus came in.

I think you're spot on with that assessment.

A lot of the Moon Hoax old guard (Jarrah included) believe that Flat-Earthers are trying to make the "Moon Hoax" cause, a laughing stock and that NASA (or the CIA, or the Government, or whoever) is behind it all.

That sounds like Jarrah logic. That boy is the living embodiment of the pseudo-intellectual. I imagine his parents spend a lot of time wondering where they went wrong 

[godscountry]

The proof is in the dust.http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/vintage-space/proof-we-landed-moon-dust

[bknight]

The proof is in the dust.http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/vintage-space/proof-we-landed-moon-dust

It is interesting that hunchbacked recently published a video that he contends the dust movement "proves" the exact opposite.  I didn't buy into his argument, as I see dust behaving as it likely should in  a near zero atmosphere.

[godscountry]

My contention is that most of the NASA space program is probably a hoax. I say "probably" because I don't know. But neither does anyone else and I think that's unacceptable. A faith-based space program during this great age of the scientific method is unnecessary and absurd. It's way past time for NASA to be scientifically accountable.

After my painful 2003 epiphany regarding 9-11, I gained the courage to confront my mythological beliefs about the space program and other things. I was confronted with the difficult question, "How do we PROVE we went to the moon?"

Photos? Video? Could be fake. Narrative? Could be lies. Launches? Yes, but what happened after they went into orbit out of sight? Did they really go to the moon? Do they really go to the space station or is just a lighted orbiting umannned and possibly inflatable prop? Did they really repair a Hubble telescope? What about the flag waving? I don't know and there's nothing we can prove about it on Earth. What about the shadows? I don't know and there's nothing we can prove about them on Earth.What about the Lunar laser reflector? I don't know and who knows how it got there even if it's actually there.

But then I stumbled upon the spacesuit ice sublimators. Being in either the vacuum of orbit or the vacuum of the moon, heat transfer is a difficult engineering challenge. There's nothing cool to conduct heat to, there's no atmosphere so there's nothing to convect heat to and a radiator would be huge and ungainly so NASA describes the clever and exotic technique of using nickel porous plate ice sublimators to explain how heat was allegedly transferred from the spacesuits and the Lunar Modules(LM).

A primary closed loop of water circulates around the heat source, either a human body or the Lunar Module, through a nickel porous plate heat exchanger. The secondary side of the heat exchanger is open to the vacuum of space through many small pores. Water passes into the heat exchanger, receives the heat of the closed primary loop and then, because it's exposed to vacuum, phase changes from liquid to ice and sublimates into space transferring heat with it. Very neat and ingenious. Naturally, I wanted to learn more. What does a spacesuit sublimator look like? Specifications? Procedures? Video of one being tested? Photographs? Technical discussions in heat transfer or thermodynamics books? I searched. Strangely and absurdly, I found almost nothing. I received almost nothing.

I got stonewalled when I appealed for information. Absurdly, there were no photographs. Absurdly, there was no video of spacesuits with ice sublimators being tested. Most absurdly, there was no information in any academic-level heat transfer or thermodynamics books. Absurdly, the alleged manufacturer, Hamilton Sunstrand of United Technologies would only release very elementary information. Absurdly, NASA's Johnson Space Center refused to provide video or photos and stonewalled me instead. Absurdly, the Rice University Department of Mechanical Engineering, most closely associated with Houston's Johnson Space Center refused to comment. Absurdly, my Congressional representatives in two states, California's and Washington's Feinstein, Boxer, Cantwell, Murray, Capps and Hastings, stonewalled me also when I requested their assistance acquiring accountability from NASA.

But voila! The good news was that I had stumbled upon the way to PROVE whether the NASA space program was a hoax. The lack of information and evasion regarding spacesuits with sublimators represents a huge anomaly upon which attention should be focused. NASA must publicly demonstrate, before independent witnesses, a spacesuit with ice sublimator cooling system in a high vacuum chamber on Earth duplicating environmental conditions of orbit. NASA refuses to be accountable. It's unacceptable. We can PROVE today on Earth if the NASA space program is a hoax. For independent witnesses I recommend retired Army General Antonio Taguba, retired Navy Admiral William Fallon and me.

Please demand NASA accountability from your respective Congressional representatives.As President Ronald Reagan said in his Farewell Address, "We the PEOPLE tell the government what to do; it doesn't tell us."  Please tell them that you want to see a spacesuit with ice sublimator work in a high vacuum chamber on Earth.
Thank you.

In the case of apollo,millions of professionals around the world would all have to be part of a elaborate fraud,the suit was pressurized,the internal liquid cooling was not taking place in in the vacuum of space,so i don't understand what exactly it is your claiming.The only heat they had to worry about was reflected solar radiation [heat]for which the lightly covered material of the suit reflected 90 percent of it  away,with no conduction of heat,other than the ground,which was insulated away by GE made silicone over boots,cooling was not a problem,both in the LEM and during the EVA's at lunar dawn[much cooler]

[godscountry]

Not much logic in that statement,your don't know,so its probrally  a hoax,why don't you know ?,research it Neil.You should be asking ?why would millions of professionals from around the world,who are part of the world wide science community lie and make up false stories,documents,how could they have faked thousands of high res photos,film,without neither the processing power ,nor the imaging software,why would they fake 9 manned flights to the moon and 6 landings,why so many flights ?why would India,Japan and other nations send spacecraft to the moon to do science and mapping,then post fake images and scans of Apollo landing sites? how could a phd,geologist not know the difference between a moon rock and a piece of petrified wood? Why would Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK and other tracking station's around the world claim to have tracked Apollo spacecraft to the surface of the moon multiple times?,JB even made a graph of Neils incredible decent,avoiding a debris field at the last few seconds ?Why hasn't a anyone connected to the Apollo program, or even one of the 400,000 workers hired by NASA,ever come forward,with evidence of a fraud,why hasn't anyone proven any of the hoax claims,all have been refuted 100's of times? hundreds of thousands of people watched the Saturn V launches ,a 360 foot monster rocket,why would NASA,use a 7.5 million pound thrust rocket to lift nothing and do it over and over ?How can anyone just flat out claim everyone and everything connected to apollo is fake without a single piece of evidence ? A moving flag ?how about applying a little logic?it was bumped out of the camera's view by the astronaut ?.Ignorance ? Which is more likely,a fan,a gust of wind [we see nothing else blow around or move] or the astronaut bumping it? The Van Allen Belts?Dr.James Van Allen has explained it over and over,the belts were the least of Apollo's risks,they were of little danger to the crews,all the data on the radiation is available to read,but people are still saying,they could not of made it through safely,so again Dr.James Van Allen's life's work is fraudulent,he's just a big fake?which is more likely?I say he's telling the truth reason being,we can look at all the data from multiple sources.   .Bottomline,all the hoax claims are easily refuted,usually with a simple search online or a trip to the library. The documentation is all there and available to anyone, all for free.NASA doesn't charge you a penny,while all the hoax believer's have a dollar sign on NASA's free information,a book,movie or magazine is always for sale,funny how it that goes.

[Grashtel]

Not much logic in that statement,your don't know,so its probrally  a hoax,why don't you know ?,research it Neil.You should be asking ?why would millions of professionals from around the world,who are part of the world wide science community lie and make up false stories,documents,how could they have faked thousands of high res photos,film,without neither the processing power ,nor the imaging software,why would they fake 9 manned flights to the moon and 6 landings,why so many flights ?why would India,Japan and other nations send spacecraft to the moon to do science and mapping,then post fake images and scans of Apollo landing sites? how could a phd,geologist not know the difference between a moon rock and a piece of petrified wood? Why would Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK and other tracking station's around the world claim to have tracked Apollo spacecraft to the surface of the moon multiple times?,JB even made a graph of Neils incredible decent,avoiding a debris field at the last few seconds ?Why hasn't a anyone connected to the Apollo program, or even one of the 400,000 workers hired by NASA,ever come forward,with evidence of a fraud,why hasn't anyone proven any of the hoax claims,all have been refuted 100's of times? hundreds of thousands of people watched the Saturn V launches ,a 360 foot monster rocket,why would NASA,use a 7.5 million pound thrust rocket to lift nothing and do it over and over ?How can anyone just flat out claim everyone and everything connected to apollo is fake without a single piece of evidence ? A moving flag ?how about applying a little logic?it was bumped out of the camera's view by the astronaut ?.Ignorance ? Which is more likely,a fan,a gust of wind [we see nothing else blow around or move] or the astronaut bumping it? The Van Allen Belts?Dr.James Van Allen has explained it over and over,the belts were the least of Apollo's risks,they were of little danger to the crews,all the data on the radiation is available to read,but people are still saying,they could not of made it through safely,so again Dr.James Van Allen's life's work is fraudulent,he's just a big fake?which is more likely?I say he's telling the truth reason being,we can look at all the data from multiple sources.   .Bottomline,all the hoax claims are easily refuted,usually with a simple search online or a trip to the library. The documentation is all there and available to anyone, all for free.NASA doesn't charge you a penny,while all the hoax believer's have a dollar sign on NASA's free information,a book,movie or magazine is always for sale,funny how it that goes.

A) Paragraphs are your friend, they make text far more readable than dumping huge walls of it
B) Neil Barker hasn't been active since last year so you aren't likely to be getting a reply

[Nowhere Man]

Not much logic in that statement,your don't know,so its probrally  a hoax,why don't you know ?,research it Neil.You should be asking ?why would millions of professionals from around the world,who are part of the world wide science community lie and make up false stories,documents,how could they have faked thousands of high res photos,film,without neither the processing power ,nor the imaging software,why would they fake 9 manned flights to the moon and 6 landings,why so many flights ?why would India,Japan and other nations send spacecraft to the moon to do science and mapping,then post fake images and scans of Apollo landing sites? how could a phd,geologist not know the difference between a moon rock and a piece of petrified wood? Why would Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK and other tracking station's around the world claim to have tracked Apollo spacecraft to the surface of the moon multiple times?,JB even made a graph of Neils incredible decent,avoiding a debris field at the last few seconds ?Why hasn't a anyone connected to the Apollo program, or even one of the 400,000 workers hired by NASA,ever come forward,with evidence of a fraud,why hasn't anyone proven any of the hoax claims,all have been refuted 100's of times? hundreds of thousands of people watched the Saturn V launches ,a 360 foot monster rocket,why would NASA,use a 7.5 million pound thrust rocket to lift nothing and do it over and over ?How can anyone just flat out claim everyone and everything connected to apollo is fake without a single piece of evidence ? A moving flag ?how about applying a little logic?it was bumped out of the camera's view by the astronaut ?.Ignorance ? Which is more likely,a fan,a gust of wind [we see nothing else blow around or move] or the astronaut bumping it? The Van Allen Belts?Dr.James Van Allen has explained it over and over,the belts were the least of Apollo's risks,they were of little danger to the crews,all the data on the radiation is available to read,but people are still saying,they could not of made it through safely,so again Dr.James Van Allen's life's work is fraudulent,he's just a big fake?which is more likely?I say he's telling the truth reason being,we can look at all the data from multiple sources.   .Bottomline,all the hoax claims are easily refuted,usually with a simple search online or a trip to the library. The documentation is all there and available to anyone, all for free.NASA doesn't charge you a penny,while all the hoax believer's have a dollar sign on NASA's free information,a book,movie or magazine is always for sale,funny how it that goes.

A) Paragraphs are your friend, they make text far more readable than dumping huge walls of it
B) Neil Barker hasn't been active since last year so you aren't likely to be getting a reply

C) Put a space after every comma, period, question mark, etc.  Do not put a space before a comma, period, question mark, etc.

Fred

[godscountry]

Not much logic in that statement,your don't know,so its probrally  a hoax,why don't you know ?,research it Neil.You should be asking ?why would millions of professionals from around the world,who are part of the world wide science community lie and make up false stories,documents,how could they have faked thousands of high res photos,film,without neither the processing power ,nor the imaging software,why would they fake 9 manned flights to the moon and 6 landings,why so many flights ?why would India,Japan and other nations send spacecraft to the moon to do science and mapping,then post fake images and scans of Apollo landing sites? how could a phd,geologist not know the difference between a moon rock and a piece of petrified wood? Why would Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK and other tracking station's around the world claim to have tracked Apollo spacecraft to the surface of the moon multiple times?,JB even made a graph of Neils incredible decent,avoiding a debris field at the last few seconds ?Why hasn't a anyone connected to the Apollo program, or even one of the 400,000 workers hired by NASA,ever come forward,with evidence of a fraud,why hasn't anyone proven any of the hoax claims,all have been refuted 100's of times? hundreds of thousands of people watched the Saturn V launches ,a 360 foot monster rocket,why would NASA,use a 7.5 million pound thrust rocket to lift nothing and do it over and over ?How can anyone just flat out claim everyone and everything connected to apollo is fake without a single piece of evidence ? A moving flag ?how about applying a little logic?it was bumped out of the camera's view by the astronaut ?.Ignorance ? Which is more likely,a fan,a gust of wind [we see nothing else blow around or move] or the astronaut bumping it? The Van Allen Belts?Dr.James Van Allen has explained it over and over,the belts were the least of Apollo's risks,they were of little danger to the crews,all the data on the radiation is available to read,but people are still saying,they could not of made it through safely,so again Dr.James Van Allen's life's work is fraudulent,he's just a big fake?which is more likely?I say he's telling the truth reason being,we can look at all the data from multiple sources.   .Bottomline,all the hoax claims are easily refuted,usually with a simple search online or a trip to the library. The documentation is all there and available to anyone, all for free.NASA doesn't charge you a penny,while all the hoax believer's have a dollar sign on NASA's free information,a book,movie or magazine is always for sale,funny how it that goes.

A) Paragraphs are your friend, they make text far more readable than dumping huge walls of it
B) Neil Barker hasn't been active since last year so you aren't likely to be getting a reply

C) Put a space after every comma, period, question mark, etc.  Do not put a space before a comma, period, question mark, etc.

Fred

Sorry guys, I meant to edit it.Hope I'm not in trouble.

[Nowhere Man]

You're not in trouble, unless your English teacher sees it.  When what you write is difficult to read, it will not be read and your ideas will go nowhere.

Fred

[molesworth]

A lot of the Moon Hoax old guard (Jarrah included) believe that Flat-Earthers are trying to make the "Moon Hoax" cause, a laughing stock and that NASA (or the CIA, or the Government, or whoever) is behind it all.

In a moment of boredom I visited a certain, well-known, three-letter forum the other day, and it was full of flat earth threads.  I succumbed to temptation to try to argue with them, but I doubt any rational explanations will get through 

However, there was a bit of a furore, as apparently the logged IP of one flat-earth proponent was from a US government department!  I expect it was probably someone having a lunch-time browse, and either he did believe the idea, or was just trolling for laughs, but it did raise a lot of questions, and doubts about whether the government is deliberately spreading the flat earth meme to discredit other conspiracies.

Personally, I doubt they give conspiracies much thought, and have far better things to do than worry whether a few folks believe we didn't go to the moon, that the Kennedy assassination was arranged by the CIA etc. 

[Ranb]

However, there was a bit of a furore, as apparently the logged IP of one flat-earth proponent was from a US government department!  I expect it was probably someone having a lunch-time browse, and either he did believe the idea, or was just trolling for laughs, but it did raise a lot of questions, and doubts about whether the government is deliberately spreading the flat earth meme to discredit other conspiracies.

I post at work sometimes, at the Puget Sound Shipyard, through their firewall.  Anything I post will show up as from a government website.  A wide variety of people work for the US government with most them not allowed to represent the government views on any certain topic.  There are bound to be tin foil hatters of all kinds posting on the WWW using government computers.

Ranb

[Glom]

Sure. That's what you want us to think.