How would conspiracy theorists design the Apollo Program?

[bknight]

Didn't von Braun originally start out with an enormous single stage rocket as a concept?

He did and this was well described in "How Apollo flew to the moon"
The guy responsible for the solution of this disastrous concept was John Houbolt. The Story is also mentioned in Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Houbolt

For those interested in von Braun's original, ambitious plan in 1952:  From - http://astronautix.com/v/vonbraunlunarlander.html

"No fewer than fifty engineers and scientists would fly to the moon aboard three spacecraft assembled in earth orbit. At 3964 metric tons each, one of these spacecraft alone, already in earth orbit, had the same mass as the Saturn V used 16 years later to launch the actual first lunar voyage from the earth's surface. Two of the lunar landers would house 20 crew, and one 10 crew plus 259 metric tons of cargo for lunar exploration. The cargo lander would be left on the lunar surface; the crew would return in two of the landers, 25 men per spacecraft."

I think this proposal was presented in a Disney weekly, but I could be wrong.  I do remember Von Braun proposing a permanent space station orbiting at 1000 miles way before we knew about the VARB.

[Bryanpoprobson]

The LM and CM shielding needs to be made out of meter thick sheets of lead.

I've had someone tell me that you couldn't use any metal.

and quite right too:- The use of LEAD as shielding would have caused secondary Bremsstrahlung radiation.

[Allan F]

What energy levels of bremsstrahlung would lead create? And how much lead would it take to stop it?

Is there a table of energy levels and atomic numbers I can refer to when people start the lead-shield-rant?

[Flookie]

The LM and CM shielding needs to be made out of meter thick sheets of lead.

I've had someone tell me that you couldn't use any metal.

and quite right too:- The use of LEAD as shielding would have caused secondary Bremsstrahlung radiation.

This guy was arguing that the use of aluminium would have made the Apollo missions impossible. I couldn't convince him that the different molecular masses of metals was significant in how Bremsstrahlung was generated.

[bknight]

This guy was arguing that the use of aluminium would have made the Apollo missions impossible. I couldn't convince him that the different molecular masses of metals was significant in how Bremsstrahlung was generated.

You did tell him that the aluminum shell was only part of the construction with stainless steel and insulation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Command/Service_Module

EDIT:
I found a better description of the construction.

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/CSM06_Command_Module_Overview_pp39-52.pdf

[Bryanpoprobson]

What energy levels of bremsstrahlung would lead create? And how much lead would it take to stop it?

Is there a table of energy levels and atomic numbers I can refer to when people start the lead-shield-rant?

BobB has it covered, in terms of the shielding of Apollo, I seem to recall someone on here calculating the difference Lead would have had. I.e Increasing the effects of bremsstrahlung radiation from 0 to very high, but I can't find it.

http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm

[Allan F]

Yes, I know that page. I was looking for a list of all the possible radiation-emissions from diverse elements. I would like to compare the emissions from wolfram (tungsten) which are used as x-ray emitters in medical x-rays. As you know, medical x-rays are used to find foreign objects inside the human body (shrapnell from bomb-blasts, projectiles and so on) and if these x-rays can detect those, they can't penetrate (or at least are greatly absorbed by) these materials.

[smartcooky]

I have a question about shielding

In 1985, the Giotto probe, and later, the Stardust probe, used a double shield of two thin layers for protection against high-velocity particles during their encounters with Halley's Comet and Comet Wild2 respectively.

AIUI, the idea of this "Whipple Shield" was that the first layer would be punctured, either smashing or decelerating the particle so that it would not have sufficient energy or velocity to penetrate the second layer. Only the relatively small number of energetic particles would get through both.

Would such an arrangement work for cosmic ray shielding and could it help to reduce the amount of bremsstrahlung radiation (I am thinking the bremsstrahlung radiation created by impact with the first layer, it might not be energetic enough to penetrate the second layer?   

[Allan F]

As I understand it, no. The whipple shield (named after it's inventor) smashes the impactor into smaller particles, which will affect a bigger area of the secondary shield. GR is (correct me if I'm wrong) heavy nuclei, accelerated to high velocities by supernovae. They will either pass clean through a shield or be stopped by it. The energy level (not the total energy) of the secondary radiation is dependent on the electron clouds the GR interact with. If they interact, fine, there will be heat and x-rays. If not, they will pass clean through and hit the secondary shield (or pass through and hit or pass thorugh the payload). If the primary shield is aluminium and the secondary shield is aluminium too, the x-rays will be stopped. More mass will be more effective than a few thin layers.

[Dalhousie]

The Whipple shield was thought on in 1947!

[bknight]

I have a question about shielding

In 1985, the Giotto probe, and later, the Stardust probe, used a double shield of two thin layers for protection against high-velocity particles during their encounters with Halley's Comet and Comet Wild2 respectively.

AIUI, the idea of this "Whipple Shield" was that the first layer would be punctured, either smashing or decelerating the particle so that it would not have sufficient energy or velocity to penetrate the second layer. Only the relatively small number of energetic particles would get through both.

Would such an arrangement work for cosmic ray shielding and could it help to reduce the amount of bremsstrahlung radiation (I am thinking the bremsstrahlung radiation created by impact with the first layer, it might not be energetic enough to penetrate the second layer?

Now that is new to me, rather like the stand off protection versus RPG's etc. used in the military.

[smartcooky]

The Whipple shield was thought on in 1947!

Arthur C. Clarke used/described a similar concept (on a much larger scale) in his 1953 short story "Jupiter Five"

[Dalhousie]

The Whipple shield was thought on in 1947!

Arthur C. Clarke used/described a similar concept (on a much larger scale) in his 1953 short story "Jupiter Five"

Probably based on Whipple.

[ka9q]

Yes, the Whipple Shield has been around for a long time. It was used in the ascent stage of the LM. That's why it's covered with those thin, flimsy sheets of metal the HBs are always going on about. When it hits the outer sheet, a particle shatters into many little bits but doesn't lose all that much energy. But the inner shield (the cabin wall) is better able to withstand that spray of tiny particles than the original single particle; it's like the difference between a rifle bullet and a shotgun blast. The LM also had multilayer aluminized Mylar thermal blankets under the outer metal sheeting that probably also helped to further fragment and spread the bits making it through the outer sheet.

The concept has a parallel in the design of error correcting codes for digital recording and communication. Two codes are often arranged such that the uncorrected errors from one are spread out over a wide enough range for the second to handle them easily. An example is the code used on the Compact Disc. The analogy may be a bit of a stretch, but I'm both a communications engineer and a space buff...

[Allan F]

Is this table a representation of the x-ray emissions from various materials?

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/kxray.html#c1