Has the 16mm Apollo 11 film always been available to the public?

[nickrulercreator]

Currently talking with a HB. He claims that the onboard 16mm footage of the moonwalk from Apollo 11 had been kept hidden until a few years ago when it was shown by a brave, but unknown spreader. I called this BS, as the film has always been available to those who requested it through a FOIA request. This is the footage in question:

Of course, the beginning of this video (0:00) shows that this video had existed since at least 1994 (dated 06-20-94). Is there any signs of it existing prior to this? What is it denoted as in the NASA archive files? I do know that the same footage existed on Super 8 reels too: https://shop.kusera.de/Apollo-11-Man-on-the-moon-Color-Columbia-8mm-Home-Movie and I used to own one. I do know this one was much older. I used to actually own a reel of it.

[onebigmonkey]

Stills from it were available in the popular media and I have several examples of it, as well as one of those super 8 reels of edited highlights.

Pretty sure all you had to do was write in and ask for copies!

[gwiz]

There were some sequences in the short 1969 NASA documentary "The Eagle has Landed" and the complete footage was on the Spacecraftfilms Apollo 11 set published in 2002.

[onebigmonkey]

I just found my copy of "Man on the moon: A film record of the Apollo 11 moon conquest", sold by UK newspaper the Daily Express. It's an 8mm record of the mission for home viewing and there is some of the 16mm footage in there. This is someone else's version of it:

[AtomicDog]

I don't get it. What's so special about this film that it would be "hidden" until a few years ago?

[onebigmonkey]

Just been skimming my collection and these two souvenir newspapers

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/ephemera/herald.pdf

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/ephemera/EveningStandard%201.pdf

both contain stills from the 16mm view of the EVA, as does this Life Magazine:

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/life/aug18.pdf

[nickrulercreator]

I don't get it. What's so special about this film that it would be "hidden" until a few years ago?

That's the question, isn't it?

According to the HB, he found a supposedly "unedited" (sped up) version of it online that, when compared to the "slowed down" (real) version of it, there's editing. He makes the claim that, in his "unedited" version, Aldrin is walking around during the phone call to Nixon. This somehow proves Apollo fake?!?!!!11

In reality, his "unedited" footage IS edited. It's sped up by a factor of 7 to 8 times. Though, he believes this is the real version, and the one found from NASA footage is the edited one, and is slowed down to fit Nixon's call in.

I pointed out to him that, not only does the live TV transmission (the one broadcast to the world) show the same thing as the actual NASA footage, but the EVA time is over an hour, which is the same as the 16mm reel. His sped-up version's EVA time is just 15 minutes. The astronaut's movements are quick and jerky.

He tried to move the goalposts to why astronauts appear to be tugging against wires that are attached to helium balloons (hint: They're not. the camera is on a tilt, and the astronauts are just stepping backward and/or stumbling a bit).

It really blows my mind

[onebigmonkey]

He probably needs to see these two videos

Where the 16mm has been synch'd with the TV.

Nixon's call is at roughly 10 minutes into the second one

[bknight]

I don't get it. What's so special about this film that it would be "hidden" until a few years ago?

That's the question, isn't it?

According to the HB, he found a supposedly "unedited" (sped up) version of it online that, when compared to the "slowed down" (real) version of it, there's editing. He makes the claim that, in his "unedited" version, Aldrin is walking around during the phone call to Nixon. This somehow proves Apollo fake?!?!!!11

In reality, his "unedited" footage IS edited. It's sped up by a factor of 7 to 8 times. Though, he believes this is the real version, and the one found from NASA footage is the edited one, and is slowed down to fit Nixon's call in.

I pointed out to him that, not only does the live TV transmission (the one broadcast to the world) show the same thing as the actual NASA footage, but the EVA time is over an hour, which is the same as the 16mm reel. His sped-up version's EVA time is just 15 minutes. The astronaut's movements are quick and jerky.

He tried to move the goalposts to why astronauts appear to be tugging against wires that are attached to helium balloons (hint: They're not. the camera is on a tilt, and the astronauts are just stepping backward and/or stumbling a bit).

It really blows my mind

You will find that HB are fastened at the head by their beliefs in a giant conspiracy and that showing him/her real evidence that destroys their contention will be ignored and/or goal posts shifted.  In addition another classic move is to change subjects to another facet attempting to continue the discussion to wear you down or test your knowledge of ALL of the events.  I haven't ever changed any mind as far as a conspiracy is concerned, although from time to time I do post to different ones hoping to find one that isn't ingrained in the belief and just is really asking questions or seeking knowledge.  Hope springs all the time.

[nickrulercreator]

He probably needs to see these two videos

Where the 16mm has been synch'd with the TV.

Nixon's call is at roughly 10 minutes into the second one

These are fantastic thank you. I doubt they'll help him, but hopefully they'll provide him a visual example.

[apollo16uvc]

I do not know how old these positives are, but they ought to be older than 1994.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22407/lot/34/

There are plenty of 8mm reels with parts of the 16mm footage. Pretty sure you could buy them everywhere at the time.

[Kiwi]

Has the 16mm Apollo 11 [EVA] film always been available to the public?

Yes, but probably not in is entirety or as 16mm film, which was mostly for professional use or rich amateurs. Back in the 1970s we saw bits of it in movie theatres and on TV, and I believe it was sold in Standard 8mm and perhaps Super 8 movie format for home viewing.

Its important parts were included in the official 1969 movie, "Eagle Has Landed: The Flight of Apollo 11" No. HQa 181. According to an old video tape I have, that film was awarded: Certificate of Exhibition, Edinburgh Film Festival 1969; Certificate of Merit, American Science Film Association 1969; Gold Camera, US Industrial Film Festival 1970; Ionosphere Award, Atlanta International Film Festival 1970. Nowadays it can be bought on many DVDs, but all the ones I've seen are poor-quality copies from damaged and/or faded film.

Nasa's publication...

Data Users' Note,  NSSDC 70-06, Apollo 11 Lunar Photography, April 1970

...tells all about Apollo 11 photos and film - availability, cameras, films used, formats of available data, coverage and quality, summary of subject matter, and ordering procedures.

There's a bunch of scans of individual pages at the Apollo 11 Lunar Surface Journal https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ under Background Material - Photography Reference (fifth from the bottom).

On page 6 it says:

  16-mm Photography

The 16-mm sequence films are available as 16-mm positive or negative color film duplicates. For convenience, the individual 16-mm magazines have been spliced together and are available on two reels. It should be pointed out that this photography is suitable only for scientific investigation. These films normally will he provided on a 3-month loan basis, although in special instances arrangements can be made for permanent retention.

The EVA was filmed with three film speeds. Neil Armstrong at 12 and 24 frames per second, and shortly before Buzz Aldrin exited the Lunar Module he set the camera to one frame per second (page 3).

In the Appendix, it lists details of all 13 magazines of 16mm film, and on page A8 the EVA:

...

[Formatting edited for clarity]

Magazine J Frame Numbers 1-5612 This magazine is the initial sequence of photography from the LM on the lunar surface. It shows the start of extravehicular activity with Astronaut Armstrong going down the LM ladder onto the lunar surface.

Magazine K Frame Numbers 1-5610 This sequence shows activities on the lunar surface.

Magazine L Frame Numbers 1-1648 This sequence was taken from the LM on the lunar surface after EVA.

...

* Photography of intravehicular activity and of the earth has been edited from the 16-mm film magazines and is not available through NSSDC. This photography can be obtained from NASA's Public Information Division. (See page 8 for address.)

So there are 11,222 frames of EVA activity on 16mm film which were available in full for scientific research from April 1970, and portions of it were released for public viewing as soon as possible after the mission.