Stars in cislunar space

[Peter B]

Be great of French records actually mentioned such an engineer.

Perhaps a fake name is necessary to keep him safe, like Una Ronald. 

[Glom]

They've invented a new noun.

[ka9q]

It's been studied: One Surprising Reason People May Believe Bizarre Conspiracy Theories | Alternet

What a great article! I've long suspected much the same thing -- psychological projection, a "I would do it myself" attitude -- and it's good to have some backing.

[Noldi400]

Speaking of stars.....

I just finished Eugene Cernan's "Last Man On The Moon" and, following that, I was going through the ALSJ for A-17 again. I found this comment that Cernan made about the visibility of stars from the lunar surface:

"When you were in the lunar module, looking out the window, you certainly couldn't see stars. Using the telescope was sort of like being in a deep well; it cut out all the reflected light and let you see the stars. It was also generally true that, when you were on the surface in the LM's shadow, there were too many bright things in your field-of-view for the stars to be visible. But I remember that I wanted to see whether I could see stars, and there were times out on the surface when I found that, if you allowed yourself to just focus and maybe even just shielded your eyes to some degree, even outside the LM shadow you could see stars in the sky."

So that pretty much goes along with what we already knew. It was his next comment that I found interesting.

"And, quite frankly, under the right conditions here on Earth on a bright sunlit day, you can do the same thing."

I have to admit I've never heard this before. Have any of you ever tried to visualize stars in the daytime? I plan to try it as soon as I have a paper towel tube free, but I had to wonder if this is a common experiment that I just hadn't heard about.

[mako88sb]

So that pretty much goes along with what we already knew. It was his next comment that I found interesting.

"And, quite frankly, under the right conditions here on Earth on a bright sunlit day, you can do the same thing."

I have to admit I've never heard this before. Have any of you ever tried to visualize stars in the daytime? I plan to try it as soon as I have a paper towel tube free, but I had to wonder if this is a common experiment that I just hadn't heard about.

I read this book back in my teens:

http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Saburo-Sakai/dp/0743412834/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344101255&sr=1-1&keywords=samurai

Saburo Sakai goes into some detail about the rigorous training standards for Japanese pilots at that time. Part of it included learning how to spot stars during the daytime. Not that every trainee could do it but enough claimed to have the skill that there must be some truth to it.

 

[Chew]

I've seen Venus shortly after sunrise but it didn't remain visible for long. Heavens-Above has an option to spot iridium flares during daylight. It uses a cut-off magnitude of -6. I've seen a -7 during daylight and it was very, very faint. I call shenanigans on spotting a star during daylight at sea level.

[cjameshuff]

I've seen Venus shortly after sunrise but it didn't remain visible for long. Heavens-Above has an option to spot iridium flares during daylight. It uses a cut-off magnitude of -6. I've seen a -7 during daylight and it was very, very faint. I call shenanigans on spotting a star during daylight at sea level.

Yeah. At high altitudes or from an aircraft, on the other hand...

It also depends on what "bright sunlit day" means. At noon, it's going to be a lot harder than it is at sunrise or sunset. At those periods, some stars certainly can be visible while the sun is still up, and if he was drawing a comparison to the moon (where all landings were done shortly after local dawn), that's reasonable.

[mako88sb]

I've seen Venus shortly after sunrise but it didn't remain visible for long. Heavens-Above has an option to spot iridium flares during daylight. It uses a cut-off magnitude of -6. I've seen a -7 during daylight and it was very, very faint. I call shenanigans on spotting a star during daylight at sea level.

Yeah. At high altitudes or from an aircraft, on the other hand...

It also depends on what "bright sunlit day" means. At noon, it's going to be a lot harder than it is at sunrise or sunset. At those periods, some stars certainly can be visible while the sun is still up, and if he was drawing a comparison to the moon (where all landings were done shortly after local dawn), that's reasonable.

I suspect with the very high standards used for Japanese pilot selection, they had quite a number with exceptional eye vision that I'm sure would help in such things. I read a while back how they used to test for such a thing by having the person point out which one of the big dipper stars is actually a double star. Apparently, you have to have better then 20/20 vision to see it.

[Noldi400]

Reasonable. I forgot to take into account that this is Gene Cernan we're talking about here - being a Naval aviator, he may have been thinking of being able to see stars in an otherwise bright sky while at altitude; and most likely he had ferociously good eyesight.

[Chew]

I read a while back how they used to test for such a thing by having the person point out which one of the big dipper stars is actually a double star. Apparently, you have to have better then 20/20 vision to see it.

Mizar and Alcor. Fair eyesight is required but... well, read the link.

[ka9q]

Speaking of seeing stars from space in the daytime, the hoaxers frequently quote Mike Melville as claiming to have seen them on his flights. I find this very hard to believe as his SpaceShipOne was only a suborbital vehicle that spent very little time above the atmosphere. Melville would have been very busy flying it, there wasn't much time for his eyes to dark-adapt, and SpaceShipOne had many windows that would have let in sunlight in almost any orientation. But I can't completely rule out the possibility if he took steps to block the sun and keep his eyes at least partly dark-adapted on the way up. He might have had time to do this during the fairly long ride on the carrier plane.

I suspect that if Melville did say something like this, he was speaking optimistically before his first flight, unaware that he would not actually be able to see them. Or he was just making it all up to sound poetic. Any ideas where this came from?

[Rob260259]

That is the thing Noldi, you get it, I get, and the astronauts sure got it. It is just that small bunch of loud-mouthed nut-bars that seem to think it is the very foundation of the lunar hoax. if you feel like weighing in, Just search YT for Neil Armstrong 1970 BBC Interview and look for the comments made by the hoax theorists. Take a swig of vodka before you do. It makes it more bearable and actually funny.

Yep. A great interview btw. I tried Armenian Cognac in vain. And actually, I invited one of these hoax theorists (Edwardwb1001) to come over here and post some of his ideas. He says he will sign up.