Dave McGowan

[raven]

That doesn't contradict what I said. After all, they are more than willing to make stuff up if no secret knowledge exists. It is the want that is important, to be inducted into the Mysteries.

[ka9q]

I have to disagree. It's probably because I am a cranky, cynical old man but I believe that although many of the Ct people are simply ill-informed, the majority of the 'vocal' CT'ers are malcontents.

I don't think there's any contradiction here. All these things are true to varying degrees in different hoaxers.

If government were incredibly open...

It's hard to find a branch of the US government more open than NASA. As I said, it's about the most benign federal agency there is, and the worst accusation anyone can level at them that isn't laughably false (because it's just an opinion) is that they waste 0.5% of the budget. Yet it draws a special ire from these people. So yeah, at least some of them are certainly malcontents. At the very least they seriously resent the accomplishments of others.

One only has to look at places like Pilots for 9-11 Truth; dissent is not tolerated: they are the very definition of dictatorship.

Yup. You can see this very easily by just challenging their claims and using a stopwatch to see how long it takes them to begin the 7th-grade bully tactics.

Back then, that sort of thing bothered me. Now I just find it entertaining.

[JayUtah]

...the worst accusation anyone can level at them that isn't laughably false (because it's just an opinion) is that they waste 0.5% of the budget.

This is indeed reasonably true, which is to say that in addition to the malcontents' claims that NASA's legitimate budget is wasted money, the budget is also chock full of special-interest earmarks.  I don't know if they're more burdened that way than other agencies, but the most common complaint I hear from inside NASA is how individual congresscritters keep using NASA's budget to hide pork for their district.  Sadly, these budget line-items need to be acted upon, whether they contribute or not to NASA's core mission.  So you have things like funding for a space-science museum in a county with only 10,000 residents.

But I'll add another legitimate criticism:  NASA is a disjoint mess.  That comes from its history.  Trying to do business with NASA is frustrating and error-prone because each individual center is very nearly autonomous.  NASA was formed from all these separate centers that already had an established culture and procedure.  They exist under loose national control, but have all different procurement and oversight requirements, standing procedures, and other business processes.  This is why, in some cases, I feel private industry would be more efficient at space exploration.

[JayUtah]

Then there's nonsense like this.  Now our taxpayers have to fund NASA's lawyers to fight this.

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/lawsuit-alleges-nasa-failing-investigate-alien-life

[Tedward]

Is that what you may call asking the impossible so one can use it as a "ah HA! I was right......"

[darren r]

Of course, there's another possibility. They constantly label us shills and disinformation agents, but perhaps they are the ones paid by shadowy agencies to start and spread wacky conspiracy theories in order to deflect focus from what governments are actually getting up to, sometimes in plain sight. Isn't this one of the theories about the Roswell 'incident' - that the military encouraged the story of a crashed flying saucer in order to draw attention away from their efforts to detect Soviet nuclear tests and develop top secret aircraft?

Of course, if you chase that rabbit too much, you can drive yourself mad. Though sometimes I think that this can be the only explanation for some of the more ridiculous things out there. That, or they're are just doing it for the 'lolz'.
 

[grmcdorman]

I'd say mostly the latter; there are a couple of posters on JREF espousing some of the more, um, "interesting" theories* who have pretty much admitted to trolling. There is also at least one poster with very CTish theories who has admitted to having been diagnosed with mental issues; that is sad.

* theories as in "wild guess with little or no foundation in this reality or just about any other"

[raven]

Well, at least they admitted it. That takes a certain kind of courage.

[Noldi400]

Of course, there's another possibility. They constantly label us shills and disinformation agents, but perhaps they are the ones paid by shadowy agencies to start and spread wacky conspiracy theories in order to deflect focus from what governments are actually getting up to, sometimes in plain sight. Isn't this one of the theories about the Roswell 'incident' - that the military encouraged the story of a crashed flying saucer in order to draw attention away from their efforts to detect Soviet nuclear tests and develop top secret aircraft?

Of course, if you chase that rabbit too much, you can drive yourself mad. Though sometimes I think that this can be the only explanation for some of the more ridiculous things out there. That, or they're are just doing it for the 'lolz'.

I have seen it claimed - with complete sincerity - that Oliver Stone is a gub'mint disinformation agent paid to spread the woo in order to distract us from what THEY are Really Up To.

[gillianren]

There is also at least one poster with very CTish theories who has admitted to having been diagnosed with mental issues; that is sad.

Are they mental issues where delusions are a symptom?  If not, I don't see how it's relevant.

[grmcdorman]

Apparently, yes. Although he has posted some details there, I don't feel it's appropriate pass it on, as to me it's a personal matter. In general, though, the point I was trying to get at was that believing in CTs because of such issues - whether directly, as in delusions, or indirectly (perhaps as a matter of lack of trust in the Establishment), is unfortunate, and should not be an object of scorn or derision. Or any other problem arising from illness, for that matter.

[ka9q]

such issues - whether directly, as in delusions, or indirectly (perhaps as a matter of lack of trust in the Establishment), is unfortunate, and should not be an object of scorn or derision.

Agreed, but at the same time it doesn't mean their ideas should be taken seriously...