Author Topic: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust  (Read 27381 times)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2016, 03:45:08 PM »
You still haven't proven that the Apollo footage is real.  If the missions were faked, you don't know what real regolith looks like.

I don't have to prove the footage in question is real.  You're telling me the footage in question was produced by a certain method.  I'm pointing out that the footage in question doesn't exhibit behavior consistent with the method you say was used.  It has nothing to do with authenticity.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2016, 03:49:26 PM »
I'm getting so many responses that I'm missing stuff.

Whine to someone else.  You're quite familiar with this venue and its dynamics.  You chose to post here, in defiance of a ban.  Either deal with the forum as-is or go away.

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I can't do those kinds of calculations.

Do you agree that they would be necessary in order to prove your point?

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I'm not putting forth the radiation info as proof.  I'm putting it forward as a plausible reason for their having had to fake the missions.

How would you know if it were plausible?  You don't have the wherewithal to determine that.

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...on the info that NASA has been feeding the public which should not simply be believed.

Why do you think it is "simply believed?"  Are you unaware that billions of dollars worth of commerce worldwide requires that information to be accurate?  Why do you think NASA could simply lie about various things having to do with space, and that no one would eventually notice?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline bknight

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2016, 03:55:25 PM »
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Prove this statement with some calculations.  I provided you with data to calculate the amount of radiation received through the lesser dense portions of the VARB, but apparently you didn't do the calculations or the calculations don't fit your beliefs and are therefore to be ignored.   
I'm getting so many responses that I'm missing stuff.

I can't do those kinds of calculations.  I'm not putting forth the radiation info as proof.  I'm putting it forward as a plausible reason for their having had to fake the missions.
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=1147.0

The proof is in the anomalies.  People say that they had the technology to go but they're basing their opinions on the info that NASA has been feeding the public which should not simply be believed.
You didn't even look at them, High School stuff.  You indicate you're not putting forth radiation info as proof, yet you state:


This is like saying the levels of space radiation are low enough for humans not to need two meters of shielding because NASA's data say so. This is pretty basic.
You are refuting yourself.
And if you can't handle all the comments, don't start so many threads or make posts to them.  Cook in your own pot.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Scott

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2016, 03:58:09 PM »
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Why do you think it is "simply believed?"  Are you unaware that billions of dollars worth of commerce worldwide requires that information to be accurate?  Why do you think NASA could simply lie about various things having to do with space, and that no one would eventually notice?   
This doesn't make the hoax proof go away. 
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

There are plausible explanations.  People who design satellites probably have high security clearances.  They know better than to go public with the truth.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfYBJFPuiwE


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Do you agree that they would be necessary in order to prove your point?   
We still have to know that the data on which we're basing the calculations isn't bogus.  If it comes from NASA,it may be bogus.  All I can do is read what Van Allen said and wonder about it.  It's more or less a moot point anyway as the anomalies have already proven the hoax.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2016, 04:04:19 PM »
This doesn't make the hoax proof go away.

Yes it does.  If you claim the public data are faulty, you must explain how successful use is made of them.

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There are plausible explanations.  People who design satellites probably have high security clearances.

"Probably?"  You mean you don't actually know?

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We still have to know that the data on which we're basing the calculations isn't bogus.

That's not what I asked.  The question is about what method we should use to test your hypothesis regarding radiation or other engineering factors.  You admit you are not conversant with the proper mathematics to do this.  I'm asking whether that presumes the premise that a mathematical proof is necessary.  You are filp-flopping.  On the one hand you refer constantly to "common sense" in place of specialized knowledge, and here you seem to admit that these specialized techniques are proper.

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All I can do is read what Van Allen said and wonder about it.

Are you qualified to know whether your sources accurately represented Dr. Van Allen?  Are you aware that Dr. Van Allen explicitly repudiated the hoax theories?

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It's more or less a moot point anyway as the anomalies have already proven the hoax.

No, it's not moot.  You may fervently desire to pursue this discussion as if your belief was already proven, but it is not.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2016, 06:45:29 PM »
What do you think of the footage of Jarrah kicking up sand on the beach?

Is this the same Jarrah that tried to simulate Aldrin's bootprint in a cardboard box with a coarse regolith simulant that does not match the particle size distribution of lunar regolith.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2016, 06:47:58 PM »
This is like saying the levels of space radiation are low enough for humans not to need two meters of shielding because NASA's data say so.

Define low enough and explain why 2 m of shielding are required?

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This is pretty basic.

Why is the radiation problem basic? Explain why it is basic.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 06:54:14 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2016, 06:54:53 PM »
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  You got one geologist to tell you you could wash and sift sand and then transport it in bulk without generating new dust, but he didn't say how 

How about a dump truck?  Are you saying that putting large-grained dust-free sand in a dump truck and transporting it and dumping it would cause enough erosion to create enough dust to cause a dust cloud when the sand is driven over?







I was the one who first posted that.

And I repeat what I also posted at the time; if you had a dump truck full of DIAMONDS, the process of being dumped would grind them and still create a cloud of dust.

You've been spamming the "dusty dump truck" for years, and I demand credit for it!
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline Dr_Orpheus

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2016, 07:51:33 AM »
Even though it's apparently easy to produce magic dust free sand which holds impressions well,  whatshisname has failed to produce even a small sample of it.

Offline bknight

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2016, 08:30:55 AM »
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  You got one geologist to tell you you could wash and sift sand and then transport it in bulk without generating new dust, but he didn't say how 

How about a dump truck?  Are you saying that putting large-grained dust-free sand in a dump truck and transporting it and dumping it would cause enough erosion to create enough dust to cause a dust cloud when the sand is driven over?







I was the one who first posted that.

And I repeat what I also posted at the time; if you had a dump truck full of DIAMONDS, the process of being dumped would grind them and still create a cloud of dust.

You've been spamming the "dusty dump truck" for years, and I demand credit for it!

So let it be written, so let it be done! :)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline smartcooky

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2016, 09:00:06 AM »
Quote
  You got one geologist to tell you you could wash and sift sand and then transport it in bulk without generating new dust, but he didn't say how 

How about a dump truck?  Are you saying that putting large-grained dust-free sand in a dump truck and transporting it and dumping it would cause enough erosion to create enough dust to cause a dust cloud when the sand is driven over?







I was the one who first posted that.

And I repeat what I also posted at the time; if you had a dump truck full of DIAMONDS, the process of being dumped would grind them and still create a cloud of dust.

You've been spamming the "dusty dump truck" for years, and I demand credit for it!

So let it be written, so let it be done! :)



Number One!!
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Mag40

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2016, 09:33:45 AM »
As comprehensive debunks go, this post takes some beating -

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=443515&p=1065831407#post1065831407

Later in that thread -

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=443515&page=5&p=1065867045#post1065867045

Debating with this guy is the archetypal game of chess with pigeons ;D

Offline bknight

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2016, 09:44:43 AM »
As comprehensive debunks go, this post takes some beating -

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=443515&p=1065831407#post1065831407

Later in that thread -

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=443515&page=5&p=1065867045#post1065867045

Debating with this guy is the archetypal game of chess with pigeons ;D

Betamax101 clearly went beyond the moderators tolerance of language.  If you were a member and can remember what were the general comments that were removed?  I'm just trying to get a handle on the level of moderation, as I feel Betamax101 is a straightforward guy, whereas Scott isn't
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Mag40

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Re: you can't deny everything.The proof is in the dust
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2016, 02:03:54 PM »
Betamax101 clearly went beyond the moderators tolerance of language.  If you were a member and can remember what were the general comments that were removed?  I'm just trying to get a handle on the level of moderation, as I feel Betamax101 is a straightforward guy, whereas Scott isn't

It appears that he has been engaging with this Rocky/Cosmored/Scott character for quite some time and he is getting the same posts from him time and again. That would drive me nuts. I don't post there and have no plans to. As far as I am concerned, any forum that tolerates someone posting the same garbage as they have elsewhere hundreds of times, doesn't warrant consideration as a place for serious debate. Just that one post dismantled his whole argument, he just ignored it. It certainly isn't the first time and it appears there is nothing that you can say to him. You can't argue with that level of delusion and ignorance.