Author Topic: Gene Cernan talk  (Read 8291 times)

Offline Peter B

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Gene Cernan talk
« on: June 08, 2016, 11:32:20 AM »
Well, last Thursday I went to the Gene Cernan "Last Man on the Moon" event here in Canberra. I elected to pay the rather large premium to attend the Meet and Greet.

Sadly, maybe I wasn't in the right mood, but I felt a bit underwhelmed by the event.

First things first - yes, Gene Cernan is in his eighties, and he's now a frail old man. But his mind is clear and his eyes still have that penetrating look of someone who clearly sees.

The M&G featured about 40-50 people, including our own Obviousman as well as me. We were given a goodies bag with a copy of the LMOTM DVD, a couple of posters (one signed) and a program book with some extended articles. Capt Cernan then walked onto the stage, said a few words to us and settled himself into a stool. Then we were lined up to be introduced one by one to him. We got to shake his hand while a photographer took a few pictures. Some people had a bit of a conversation with him, some got him to sign various objects, while others like me had barely enough time to introduce ourselves before we were ushered back off the stage. All through the photography sessions people were free to take personal photos of him. I managed a couple of low quality piccies on my phone.

And that was pretty much the end of the M&G.

We then had an hour's break before the main event. During the break I purchased a signed copy of Capt Cernan's LMOTM book.

For the main event, the 1500 seat theatre was packed, with the M&G people seated front and centre. And it turned out Obviousman had the seat next to me, so it was good to be able to catch up with him on a few years of news.

They showed the LMOTM video, after which the presenter, Dr Lisa Harvey-Smith of the Square Kilometre Array, introduced Capt Cernan, his old flying buddy Commander Fred Baldwin (for a short time I thought they'd said it was going to be Frank Borman!) and the film maker Mark Stewart. They chatted about various aspects of Capt Cernan's life, there was some banter between the two navy aviators trying to one-up each other, and Mark Stewart spoke a bit about his own insights into the life of an astronaut family, as the son of 1960s-70s Formula 1 driver Sir Jackie Stewart.

About ten people were then invited to a microphone to ask questions they'd submitted on forms before the main event. They were pretty standard questions, with no particular revelations in the answers, although Capt Cernan said that the spacesuits were very comfortable (something that hadn't really occurred to me) apart from the inflexible gloves.

There was then time for the photographer to come on stage and attempt to get a photo of the audience with the speakers, and a standing ovation for the speakers, and that was it.

= = = =

As I said at the start, I may not have been in the best mood (busy at work, busy at home, developing a cold) but I felt a little underwhelmed by the M&G experience, given its hefty price tag.

For one thing, it was clear that Capt Cernan had a lot more time for women, children, and men his age in the M&G group than he did for middle-age men like me, unless you had some particular gimmick that attracted his attention. I only need to look at the photos to see his face was far more animated with children and women than it was when he was posing for photos with men like me.

Another thing that disappointed me was his description of scraping his daughter's initials in the soil on the Moon. Sure, it's a lovely story, and we know that he fully intended to do so, but we also know that he didn't do it. It's just a shame that he feels it worthwhile turning a fantasy into reality (as minor as the incident is).

There were several times where he clearly misheard questions he was asked, even when they were repeated. I realise he's old, and I know that even Americans with good hearing find it difficult to understand Australians speaking through a microphone. But it meant that there were a few questions which were effectively left unanswered (along with the time taken up repeating the questions eating into answering time).

Finally, out of all the photos taken, and the 61 which were released, there was only one I bothered to save - of me shaking hands with Capt Cernan. The rest were photos of other M&G people, a couple of specially organised group photos and a couple of photos of people asking questions. None of the speakers+audience photos made it.

It wasn't until I got home that my wife reminded me that I'd had a proper camera in my backpack - I'd completely forgotten (my excuse was that I'd packed the camera that morning, and then gone straight from work to the event, so the camera had been out of my mind for 10 hours).

I'd also brought along my copy of Chaikin's "A Man on the Moon" to read beforehand to remind me of something Cernan had said. I'd had vague thoughts about getting it autographed, but when I saw signs in the theatre foyer saying "No autographs" I packed it in my backpack and left it in the cloak room. It wasn't until the M&G was underway that the promoter said that we were free to ask Capt Cernan to autograph items. But by then it was too late to go back and retrieve the book. So that was a bit annoying too...

In retrospect, maybe I should have brought my oldest son to the M&G, although that would have made the evening crazy expensive, and at only 8 years old I think he would have been both tired and bored as the evening progressed.

Anyway, that was my experience.

Perhaps Obviousman might like to add his own observations.

= = = =

BTW, people seen in the audience included Mike Dinn of Honeysuckle Creek fame, and Glen Nagle, the Education and Outreach Manager at the Tidbinbilla Tracking Station.

And no Jarrah White!
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Offline bknight

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 08:44:58 PM »
Share the image for we that didn't attend. :(
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2016, 06:07:12 AM »

Another thing that disappointed me was his description of scraping his daughter's initials in the soil on the Moon. Sure, it's a lovely story, and we know that he fully intended to do so, but we also know that he didn't do it. It's just a shame that he feels it worthwhile turning a fantasy into reality (as minor as the incident is).


Is that true? I always thought that it involved Tracy's name on Tracy's Rock and the painting by Alan Bean:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy%27s_Rock
http://www.factfiend.com/man-wrote-daughters-name-moon/

But I believed that he DID scrape Tracy's initials in the dust?
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Offline Peter B

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 07:17:32 AM »
Share the image for we that didn't attend. :(

Ah, can't a guy have a few secrets? :-)
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Offline Peter B

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 07:22:49 AM »

Another thing that disappointed me was his description of scraping his daughter's initials in the soil on the Moon. Sure, it's a lovely story, and we know that he fully intended to do so, but we also know that he didn't do it. It's just a shame that he feels it worthwhile turning a fantasy into reality (as minor as the incident is).


Is that true? I always thought that it involved Tracy's name on Tracy's Rock and the painting by Alan Bean:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy%27s_Rock
http://www.factfiend.com/man-wrote-daughters-name-moon/

Ah, yes, I think you're right.

Quote
But I believed that he DID scrape Tracy's initials in the dust?

Not to my knowledge. The only indication on the ALSJ of Tracy's name or initials being recorded anywhere is in Alan Bean's painting of Tracy's Rock.

Like I say, it's a minor issue, but it does compromise the historical integrity of the Apollo record.
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Offline Rob48

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 01:08:36 PM »


Not to my knowledge. The only indication on the ALSJ of Tracy's name or initials being recorded anywhere is in Alan Bean's painting of Tracy's Rock.

Like I say, it's a minor issue, but it does compromise the historical integrity of the Apollo record.

I have certainly red that he wrote "TDC" in the dust elsewhere, but regretted that he didn't write the name on the rock. He repeats that story in LMOTM, I believe. But, like you, I suspect it didn't actually happen and has just become a "recovered memory".

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2016, 01:39:05 PM »
Geno does like to spin a yarn :D

Shame you didn't enjoy it as much as you hoped - these events are a bit of a cattle market! When I saw him in Sheffield he was likewise very attentive to young kids, and frankly I'd rather talk to a pretty lady than a nerdy bloke :D

I only managed to shake his hand by basically stalking him and buttonholing him as he emerged from a lift!

Offline mako88sb

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2016, 02:35:59 PM »


Not to my knowledge. The only indication on the ALSJ of Tracy's name or initials being recorded anywhere is in Alan Bean's painting of Tracy's Rock.

Like I say, it's a minor issue, but it does compromise the historical integrity of the Apollo record.

I have certainly red that he wrote "TDC" in the dust elsewhere, but regretted that he didn't write the name on the rock. He repeats that story in LMOTM, I believe. But, like you, I suspect it didn't actually happen and has just become a "recovered memory".

I don't see why he wouldn't have done it. Pretty simple task and I can't for the life imagine him not paying some kind of tribute to his daughter. If there's doubt because he didn't photograph it, all I can say is maybe he didn't feel the need to although it would of been something I would of done. I believe Jim Irwin left a family photo like Charlie Duke did but did he take a photo of it on the Moon?

Offline BazBear

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 12:54:09 AM »
As a general observation of us human apes, sometimes what we wish we did becomes what we did, over time. Not saying that is the case here....

That said, thank you Cpt. Cernan and Dr. Schmitt.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:56:38 AM by BazBear »
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Offline Rob48

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2016, 07:57:25 AM »

I don't see why he wouldn't have done it. Pretty simple task and I can't for the life imagine him not paying some kind of tribute to his daughter. If there's doubt because he didn't photograph it, all I can say is maybe he didn't feel the need to although it would of been something I would of done. I believe Jim Irwin left a family photo like Charlie Duke did but did he take a photo of it on the Moon?

The reason I doubt it is that he said he wished he had done it but hadn't even thought of it at the time, hence Alan Bean painting Tracy's name on the rock in his picture. It seems odd that he would say he didn't think of writing her name in the dust on the rock, but he did, separately, right her initials in the dust elsewhere.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 08:16:45 AM »

Another thing that disappointed me was his description of scraping his daughter's initials in the soil on the Moon. Sure, it's a lovely story, and we know that he fully intended to do so, but we also know that he didn't do it. It's just a shame that he feels it worthwhile turning a fantasy into reality (as minor as the incident is).


Since he says he did, why do you disbelieve him? 

Offline mako88sb

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 12:51:51 PM »
The reason I doubt it is that he said he wished he had done it but hadn't even thought of it at the time, hence Alan Bean painting Tracy's name on the rock in his picture. It seems odd that he would say he didn't think of writing her name in the dust on the rock, but he did, separately, right her initials in the dust elsewhere.

Yes but he made that comment after the picture for Tracy's rock became fairly popular:

 "I said that, if I'd known the picture was going to get so much notoriety, I wished I would have done something that I hadn't even thought of at the time. And that is to have printed Tracy's name in the dust."

I take that to mean that if he could do it all over again, that's were he would of honored his daughter instead of writing her initials beside the LRV. I don't see any reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt. If I recall correctly, he did promise Tracey he would do something along those lines. Seems reasonable to me that after parking the rover, that would be a good time to do it.

I read a while back that the "Part-Time Scientists" X-Prize team are planning on landing 2 rovers close to the Apollo 17 site with one visiting the rover so I'm sure they would take special precautions to limit how close they got but still be able to get video of that particular location.

Offline Obviousman

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2016, 05:14:59 AM »
G'day Pete.

Yeah, i pretty much agree with you. It's clear that Gene is showing his age; despite his heavy schedule I'd imagine he'll have to start scaling back. Hell, I'm only a little over 50 and international trips can stuff me up!

I don't want to blame Gene in any way for this but $500+ for a single photo with him - and about 30 seconds of chat - isn't great value. I know if you have 30 people and giving them 1 minute each means that Geno would have to be "proud, happy and thrilled" for 30 minutes. I think the organisers could have arranged things a little better, giving him time to rest whilst giving the M&G people a little better value (I know that having gotten a DVD that i would have happily missed the screening in trade for a longer meeting).

I also understand your feeling regarding the Vietnam issue and yes, it was a bit of back-slapping, but a number of people who didn't serve in Vietnam felt that somehow they didn't fulfil their obligation. I know I kinda have the same attitude; despite being in active service for 25 years during Gulf 1, 2, and the current conflicts and being happy to be deployed, I never was. Somehow i feel that I "missed out" and didn't "do my duty". I figure that Geno feels a little that way, especially when one of his best mates took such a leading role.  Baldy tries to counter that by saying Geno served in his own way.

I was a little pissed when the organisers said that CAPT Cernan would sign things; it was expressly prohibited in the ticket. Sure, I like rules to be relaxed but if I had known i might have brought some memorabilia.

Cheers!

Offline Peter B

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2016, 10:06:47 AM »

Another thing that disappointed me was his description of scraping his daughter's initials in the soil on the Moon. Sure, it's a lovely story, and we know that he fully intended to do so, but we also know that he didn't do it. It's just a shame that he feels it worthwhile turning a fantasy into reality (as minor as the incident is).


Since he says he did, why do you disbelieve him?

Because what I've read has always been slanted in a way which suggests he hadn't written anything but wished he had, so my interpretation (and I realise it's only an interpretation) is that he didn't write anything.

My two main sources are Chaikin and the ALSJ.

Chaikin:
Quote
Looking at them [pictures of Tracy's Rock] , he would also see a patch of soil on top of a low, rocky ledge that would forever bear the imprint of his hands where he had collected samples; he would wish that he had taken a moment to write his daughter Tracy's name in the dust.

ALSJ:
Quote
It was on this part of the rock that Al Bean wrote "Tracy", my daughter's name, in one of his paintings. After we came home I started to see a picture of the boulder in lots of places. It was the picture of Jack going past the corner of the rock (21496), one of the pictures from my pan. It became very popular. One day Al Bean came by and said he was doing a painting of it. And it was a big painting, six feet by three feet or something like that. Al likes to have stories in his paintings and he wanted to talk about it. So we talked about the slope and how hard it was to climb up there and I said that, if I'd known the picture was going to get so much notoriety, I wished I would have done something that I hadn't even thought of at the time. And that is to have printed Tracy's name in the dust. Al's daughter Amy and Tracy had grown up together and he asked 'How would you have done it'. So I wrote it out on a piece of paper and, some time later, he called and wanted me to come over and look at what he'd done. He had erased the place where I'd taken the sample and had put in Tracy's name, instead. And in the little story he put with the picture, he said that he'd done it to save me the trouble of going back to do it myself, and to save the taxpayers the expense of sending me back.

So in each case Cernan expresses regret for not writing Tracy's name, but in neither case is there any suggestion that he wrote her name or her initials anywhere else. I realise it's not definitive, but to me the ALSJ story reads like someone to whom it never occurred to write anything anywhere. Jones gave the astronauts every opportunity to comment as they listened to the recordings, and it just seems likely to me that if Cernan had actually written Tracy's initials in the soil somewhere else, this story would have been exactly the time that he would have mentioned it. Plus there's the fact that the ALSJ review of Apollo 17 was done in 1991, only (!) nineteen years after Apollo 17 flew, so I'd have thought Cernan would at least have remembered back then whether he'd done anything.

Just for completeness I searched for every other reference to Tracy's name after that in the transcripts, and there's no suggestion of or reference to her name that I could (quickly) find. Cernan took a few photos of the rover after parking it for the last time, and the TV camera panned around a bit. Perhaps someone might like to scan them to see if there's any evidence of Cernan having marked anything in the soil (he certainly had time during the rover closeout).
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Gene Cernan talk
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2016, 10:17:11 AM »
Personally, I think that there's too much been read into the words. To me it's clear that in the second quotation he is talking only about Tracys Rock
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