Author Topic: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?  (Read 7236 times)

Offline Willoughby

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Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« on: June 17, 2016, 12:11:47 PM »
I figured I would ask this here as you guys are all way more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to these things.  Take a look at this video between 4:20 and 4:23 :



There is a white dot that travels across the screen.  It appears to me like something in orbit moving retro to Apollo 10.  I've cross-referenced the lunar probes from Wikipedia's list of lunar probes with the time of Apollo 10, and I've come up with these possibilities of orbiters that would have still been in orbit during Apollo 10 :

NASA's Explorer 35, but its orbit was 764km x over 7,000km - Apollo 10 orbited around 110km to 310km I believe, so Explorer wouldn't be "below" Apollo 10.  I think it can be elimated.

USSR's Luna 14 would have been in orbit around the moon during Apollo 10, and its "initial" orbit parameters were 160km x 870km with an inclination of 42 degrees according to Wikipedia.  It is possible that Luna 14 would have orbited below Apollo 10 if they met each other at the right time in their respective orbits.  The question is - would their inclinations be such that it would even be possible?  I can't find anything on the inclination of Apollo 10's lunar orbit.  Anyone know?  All I can find that would be the closest (in my uneducated estimation) is the 31.8 degrees of inclination to Earth Apollo 10 had at the time of the translunar injection burn.  I don't know if this translates well at all to what the inclination to the moon would be.  I really don't know.

Can someone help me out with this?

Obviously the white dot could very well be a piece of debris that is just untraceable or a visual anomaly.  It would be fun to identify though if possible.


Offline QuietElite

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2016, 07:05:18 PM »
The object travels with a low relative velocity compared to the CSM which indicates that its orbit is very closely to the CSM orbit. If we would know its relative velocity and its direction we could calculate its orbit based on the orbit of the CSM. I could also try to replicate this in Orbiter or KSP, but as I already said the orbit matches roughly the orbit of the CSM. A problem would be to determine the exact relative velocity and the direction of the object since it is hard to determine its motion. Also the footage could be speed up, but it looks like real time for me.
In my opinion it is unlikely that a object/debris from another mission was in a close orbit and approached the CSM. It was probably debris from Apollo 10 itself that moved away before and approached the CSM/LM again due to its orbital characteristics. However the question would then be what exactly this object was. NASA called such unknown objects "moon pigeons".
Another theory on the internet is ... *starting X-Files theme* ... that the object was a extraterrestrial UFO  ;D

Offline ka9q

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2016, 09:45:24 PM »
This had to be a piece of debris, probably from Snoopy (the LM). This appears to have been during the rendezvous, which would have followed the jettisoning of the descent stage.

There were many possible such sources of debris: bits of Kapton insulation from the descent stage, crystals of ice from water and urine dumps, etc.

Offline Willoughby

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2016, 10:23:29 PM »
I'm a moron.  It never occured to me that it would be from Apollo 10 itself.  Of course that is the most logical source.  Thanks guys.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2016, 06:03:14 AM »
I'm a moron.  It never occured to me that it would be from Apollo 10 itself.  Of course that is the most logical source.  Thanks guys.

Don't beat yourself up - we've all done it :)

At least you didn't claim it as exclusive proof of alien visitation, which some have!

Offline bknight

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2016, 10:25:21 AM »
...

At least you didn't claim it as exclusive proof of alien visitation, which some have!
You mean it wasn't a UFO?  I'm simply crushed. ::)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Willoughby

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2016, 12:08:03 PM »
I believe I remember reading that the missions, or at least Apollo 10 in particular, was initially in an elliptical lunar orbit.  They then put themselves into a more circular parking orbit.  Would the LM separation have occured before or after this burn to circularize their orbit?  I would assume after, but I don't know.

Initially, I assumed the object could be miles away, which is why I estimated it was a satellite with a high relative velocity, but now that it's more likely debris from Apollo 10, it could be something much smaller only a few meters away which makes the relative velocity much lower.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2016, 12:44:36 PM »
The circularisation burn was before they went about their business in the LM :)

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_10i_Timeline.htm

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2016, 04:01:54 PM »
Initially, I assumed the object could be miles away, which is why I estimated it was a satellite with a high relative velocity, but now that it's more likely debris from Apollo 10, it could be something much smaller only a few meters away which makes the relative velocity much lower.

This is the step/connection that The Stupidati more often than not fail to make. They cannot conceive of the idea that what they are seeing can be interpreated any other way than the one that fits their worldview.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 09:43:55 AM »
There were many possible such sources of debris: bits of Kapton insulation from the descent stage, crystals of ice from water and urine dumps, etc.

During Apollo 7 one of the guys hand-held the 16mm camera to film a few gazillion "UFOs" going past one of windows at various speeds. Spacecraft Films, in their 2-DVD set Apollo 7 -- Shakedown Cruise, show 1 minute 21 seconds of the display and call it "The Constellation Urion?"
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline bknight

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Re: Spotted satellite on Apollo 10 footage?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 10:16:03 AM »
Initially, I assumed the object could be miles away, which is why I estimated it was a satellite with a high relative velocity, but now that it's more likely debris from Apollo 10, it could be something much smaller only a few meters away which makes the relative velocity much lower.

This is the step/connection that The Stupidati more often than not fail to make. They cannot conceive of the idea that what they are seeing can be interpreated any other way than the one that fits their worldview.
Very well spoken/thought out.  The conspiratists can not make any connection except that which fits their belief.  They will state that any other viewpoint is ridiculous and wrong.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan