Faking Being Halfway to the Moon

[Scott]

Watch how the corner of Collins' jacket moves in this clip.

Apollo_11__The_TV_Transmission_Conspiracy_Theorists_Hate_.mp4

(00:52 time mark)

The corner of Collins' jacket swings back and forth the way it would in gravity.


Look at the corners of the jacket the woman astronaut is wearing in this clip.

Discovery Crew Enters International Space Station
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TejsnPThmd4

That is real zero-gravity and they behave quite differently.


The movement of Collins' jacket corner is very different from that of the straps in this clip which is in zero-G.

Our World: Exercise Equipment

(3:17 time mark)


It looks the same as the movement of this guy's jacket corners in gravity.

ISS space station treadmill running

That footage was not taken halfway to the moon.  It was taken in strong earth gravity.  One possible explanation is that they were trying to fake zero-gravity in a diving plane and the plane wasn't diving fast enough at that point.

[JayUtah]

The corner of Collins' jacket swings back and forth the way it would in gravity.

Begging the question.  Do you purport to be able to predict all of the ways in which fabric might behave in or outside the influence of gravity?

[Scott]

  Begging the question.  Do you purport to be able to predict all of the ways in which fabric might behave in or outside the influence of gravity? 

I tried it myself and I was able to duplicate the movement of Collins jacket with my own jacket.  My common sense tells me that the movement would be different in zero-G or microgravity. 

There's also the issue of the movement dog tags around his neck.

[bknight]

  Begging the question.  Do you purport to be able to predict all of the ways in which fabric might behave in or outside the influence of gravity? 

I tried it myself and I was able to duplicate the movement of Collins jacket with my own jacket.  My common sense tells me that the movement would be different in zero-G or microgravity. 

There's also the issue of the movement dog tags around his neck.

Please provide a video supporting your claim.  And that is half the battle you have to provide a video of a jacket in zero gravity that supports your claim.

[JayUtah]

I tried it myself and I was able to duplicate the movement of Collins jacket with my own jacket.

Begs the question that all observable movement in microgravity must necessarily differ from all observable movement in Earth gravity.

My common sense tells me that the movement would be different in zero-G or microgravity.

Your intuition is not evidence.

[Scott]

  Begs the question that all observable movement in microgravity must necessarily differ from all observable movement in Earth gravity. 

Let's hear your analysis of the difference in movement in the four videos I posted.  Why does the movement of Collins' jacket corners look so much like the movement of the the guy on earth's jacket corners and so unlike that of the straps of the woman on the treadmill in the space station?

[JayUtah]

Let's hear your analysis of the difference...

Shifting the burden of proof.

Why does the movement of Collins' jacket corners look so much like the movement of the the guy on earth's jacket corners and so unlike that of the straps of the woman on the treadmill in the space station?

Because the examples were cherry-picked to convey the impression that a simplistic difference should exist.  That's a straw man argument.

[Allan F]

Because they are different garments, which of course behaves differently according to their OWN structure and not according to your conviction.

[Scott]

  Shifting the burden of proof. 

I consider it to be already proven. 

Because they are different garments, which of course behaves differently according to their OWN structure and not according to your conviction.   

Gravity is working on the corners of Collins' jacket but not on the straps of the space station astronaut on the treadmill.  Difference in structure would not cause gravity to cease functioning.

[JayUtah]

I consider it to be already proven. 

Then that would be begging the question.  You are simply declaring that you know best when it comes to how objects should behave in the presence or absence of gravity.  That is not evidence.

[Willoughby]

One of the biggest problems about arguing this with people like Scott is that people like him don't have the education to recognize when their arguments have been wholly debunked. 

[JayUtah]

One of the biggest problems about arguing this with people like Scott is that people like him don't have the education to recognize when their arguments have been wholly debunked.

There are happily very few people with Scott's peculiar set of dysfunctions.  In order to realize when an argument has been refuted, you have to understand the argument.  FatFreddy88/DavidC/Scott simply fail at a fundamental level to grasp what it means to have a valid inference.  They fail at a fundamental level to grasp what constitutes evidence or proof.  And the result is a cargo-cult travesty of an argument.

[Glom]

For a fabric to flap, all it requires is some kind of correcting force. Gravity is one, but there are others.

Right now, I'm working on an oscillator that has multiple forces acting on it. It's still a simple oscillator though (even if not as simple as a simple pendulum)

[revmic]

I tried it myself and I was able to duplicate the movement of Collins jacket with my own jacket.

Begs the question that all observable movement in microgravity must necessarily differ from all observable movement in Earth gravity.

My common sense tells me that the movement would be different in zero-G or microgravity.

Your intuition is not evidence.

If Scott had said: 'I have carefully observed the effects of jacket material moving in earth gravity and compared it with video of jacket material moving in microgravity. I am confident enough in the evidence of my senses to reasonably conclude that the astronaut's jacket moved in a manner obviously similar to being in earth gravity.' Would that have been sufficient to sustain his argument (not prove), or are lay observations usually considered to be without weight (NPI)?

[Jason Thompson]

It's not that it's a lay observation, it's that the comparison has a low sample size (one jacket compared to one other jacket, once), has no comment about how closely the two test subjects match in terms of physical properties (one jacket is not the same as another), is based on an unsupported premise (that all microgravity movements must be significantly different from 1G movements), and therefore does not lead to a scientifically robust conclusion.

Lay observations are very valuable as part of a data set, but lay conclusions lack weight without robust justifications. 'It looks like it to me' doesn't serve as a valid supported conclusion.