Chemtrails. The reality.

[scooter]

I would also like to start a topic on chemtrails as I have been researching the topic for some time, and I have an opinion with some evidence to support it. Before gong into it, what are your strongest points against or for it. I will join you later, once you have come up with your ideas.

AB, that photo of the two planes...I assume your research has enlightened you as to aircraft separation rules at flight levels, yes? Two planes in close lateral distances travelling in the same direction will be separated by at least 2000 feet. Your two jetliners in the photo were so separated...you won't find airliners doing formation flights like you imply. (~100m separation). This vertical separation would also explain any differences in contrail appearances...as would differences in aircraft types, weights, power settings, engine types, local atmospheric conditions and other variables. Who knows, maybe one is a 737 and the other is a more distant 767. And the telephoto lens does distort/compress the apparent distance between the aircraft.

You said you have some "evidence to support it" (chemtrails). Still waiting for that evidence. I suspect that the increase in contrails can be significantly explained by the increase in the number of airliners flying up there, aka "fragmentation". More smaller jets flying vs fewer heavies, this in order to cater to customer demands for more convenient flight schedules. Air traffic continues to increase, and it has only recently become a topic for the CTs.

Finally, no one to date has ever made a direct correlation between contrails and any materials (natural or otherwise) found on the Earth's surface. There was a site collecting funds to capture "chemtrail" evidence directly via a business jet, but after some fundraising, the site closed down, much to the consternation of the gullible contributors.

How about you show us your best evidence (aside from "it looks strange to me"). I still rarely see contrails here in Colorado (the "mountain west"), likely a RH issue at altitude, though we do sometimes get the "dashed" trails due to the jetstream interacting with the mountain wave effect. When I do see trails, and I have access to the internet, flightaware.com makes it easy to ID the flights (even shows their filed flightplans). Oft times, one can easily ID the flights visually. Had a Virgin A380 going over some time back, conning all to hell and gone...beautiful sight! Heavy 747s are pretty as well.

Contrails are a natural byproduct of aircraft flying in the right conditions, which can even be on/near the ground. Show us some concrete evidence to the contrary, all those pretty youtube videos aren't doing it.

[scooter]

Yet we will see many videos where the air traffic is above big cities, and leaving these huge lasting chemtrails. Airplanes are not flying above cities at 10km , they are approaching  or leaving airports , thus being much lower than 10km, which would exclude condensation trails.

This statement, do you really and truely mean it? If so, your "research" machinery needs some work. And jetliners cruise anywhere from FL180-430, give or take...depends on several variables, which your research will also no doubt reveal to you.
I'm starting (!?) to doubt your research...seriously.

[Jason Thompson]

Don't expect a response. AB has flounced off. Check out his thread on the Hoax Theory section.

[SolusLupus]

You could always go to that forum he's in now and ask probing questions, but I doubt it'll end well for anyone.

In that it would just be a headache and they'd probably ban you.

[scooter]

Well, I saw him bail on Apollo, missed that he'd left here as well...
His observational/research skills are....exasperating.
"looks like=is".

Reminds me of a recent trip to the Drivers License office...OMG...I'm driving on the same road as these folks???

[SolusLupus]

Well, you don't get any more anti-authoritarian than a conspiracy theorist, so if their eyeball disagrees with an "expert", then the expert must be wrong, since they're part of "the authority".

[ka9q]

Well, you don't get any more anti-authoritarian than a conspiracy theorist, so if their eyeball disagrees with an "expert", then the expert must be wrong, since they're part of "the authority".

I'd always thought of myself as one of the more anti-authoritarian people I know. But if an authority I really disliked were to say "2+2=4", I wouldn't produce a 12-part Youtube video series to argue that 2+2 is really equal to every number but 4.

Yet this is just what CTs do. It's as if anything NASA (or whoever) says must be false simply because they're part of the US government, and the US government always lies. The CTs generally lack the education and skills needed to test the statements for themselves, and they're far too paranoid to trust the opinion of anyone who does have the necessary background. In fact, when the experts agree with the government agency, it can only be because they're all paid shills, not because the statement is actually correct.

[cjameshuff]

It's also notable how heavily they lean on appeal to authority in spite of this. And how their chosen authorities almost never have any relevant education or experience and often have been demonstrated to be extremely dishonest individuals...not by a government smear campaign, but by their own actions.

[scooter]

I dropped by AB's new forum...scary stuff. There was a linked video of lots of pretty contrails over Milwaukee, the dude filming was having profane fits over all the evil contrails and the evil gubmint etc...that such folks walk the streets bothers me some. Ranting about chem-bombing, chemtrail attacks...I need to check flightaware.com and see what the enroute traffic is like over there.

Also a pretty "racetrack" contrail picture...I enjoyed 8 years with AWACS...I suspect we made quite a few of those when conditions permitted.

[twik]

People like AB don't seem to *see* much of the world. For example, his claim that contrails should not be seen above major cities, because planes there would be landing or taking off, not travelling at altitude.

So, every time I've flown over a metropolitan area on the way to somewhere else didn't happen? It's practically on a par with those people a few years ago who were arguing that the earth had been knocked off its access, because the sun was setting in a different part of the sky in July than in February. How do they not notice the way things work?

[Echnaton]

AB had a deplorable lack of curiosity for the world around him.  He seems to prefer abstract rationalizing about the logical consequences of his prejudices to going outside and looking into the sky.

[DataCable]

A silly thought occurred to me a day or two ago on this subject.  Could spectroscopy determine, from the ground, if the chemical composition of a contrail includes significant amounts of anything other than the dreaded DHMO?

[ka9q]

I'm sure it could. But try explaining to them that you can actually tell what something is made of just by looking at it from a distance.

[RedneckR0nin]

Try explaining to any chemtrail believer that the North American airspace has a estimated 96,000 flights daily over it's skies....then again try explaining anything to them...they are the bottom feeders of the conspiracy believer totem pole.

[SolusLupus]

You can't really "explain" anything to these people, because they distrust everyone that supports "the official story", or think that you're one of "the sheeple".  If they assume you're deluded or lying before even considering the facts, how they can accept an explanation?

Of course, that's not to say you shouldn't try.  It's just unlikely they'll say "Oh, I was wrong all along!"  More than likely, a couple months or years down the line, they then will start thinking "Wow, you know, maybe I was being stupid after all."