Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 661869 times)

Offline jfb

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1635 on: November 09, 2020, 05:47:53 PM »
Y'all need to check out Chapelle's monologue on SNL. 

Offline Peter B

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1636 on: November 09, 2020, 06:41:12 PM »


I enjoyed that. :)

I realise this is a few years old, but it still seems relevant today: Not a valid vimeo URL

I showed it to my kids a couple of nights ago and they laughed themselves silly (we've been discussing politics at the dinner table and they've been quite engaged).

If you can't click on a link, search on vimeo donny goes to school.
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1637 on: November 09, 2020, 06:49:22 PM »
I realise this is a few years old, but it still seems relevant today

 ;D ;D ;D

That's pretty much how Trump is behaving right now. "I don't wanna go! I don't wanna go!"
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Offline Peter B

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1638 on: November 09, 2020, 07:23:33 PM »
I realise this is a few years old, but it still seems relevant today

 ;D ;D ;D

That's pretty much how Trump is behaving right now. "I don't wanna go! I don't wanna go!"

Now that they've seen the video, I think I might start using the phrase "We have to talk to the President of Argentina" on my kids when they're slow to get ready...
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Offline Zakalwe

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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1640 on: November 10, 2020, 04:19:42 AM »
Quelle surprise......the incompetence continues.

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline raven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1641 on: November 10, 2020, 06:46:50 AM »
A civil war will not happen.  Not enough of his sycophants actually care enough to do it.  Certainly they have no concept of working together, kind of necessary for that sort of thing.  He doesn't have the generals--they hate him--so the military isn't on his side.  And frankly, a lot of his gun nut followers are cowards who like talking a big game but wouldn't risk themselves.

I'm not so worried about a full scale civil war, but I do worry about the small number of lone gunmen and Timothy McVeighs that might be out there.
That's my worry as well. That said, I do think the Trump presidency is going to be remembered by future historians as a definite weakening in The Rise and Fall of the American Hegemony.

Offline Glom

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1642 on: November 10, 2020, 08:16:45 AM »
So... um... is the USA going to remain intact?

It does seem like a lot of the Republican establishment is going along with this and the bulk of Republican supporters are onboard too.

Offline jfb

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1643 on: November 10, 2020, 10:36:52 AM »
Looks like Trump was correct all along about voter fraud!

Pennsylvania has arrested someone for faking his dead mother's signature on a mail-in ballot. First case in three decades. Guess which candidate the accused supported?


https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/-trump-supporter-arrested-voter-fraud-pennsylvania_n_5f91e43ec5b61c185f4848de?ri18n=true&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9jb25zZW50LnlhaG9vLmNvbS92Mi9jb2xsZWN0Q29uc2VudD9zZXNzaW9uSWQ9M19jYy1zZXNzaW9uXzE0YTk1ZGI4LWEyMzEtNDViYi1iMDQ3LTBhYjU3ODhlMjNkYg&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE5LLpyExhuOKrBqv62RppM8FCv9iLRVw8fUQ5Uj80qKB8trGgIbPNp3NVyPPwNPDjxiX41T9GPav9HnNwMir8Z8gjbfdL5Qn1PZ7Zbf-6c2iUAggQbZx6bTLoVU_SPKTmAh8GvFnAIW_WfbsIC7Iq-0JlzTsicz3g3Fhw7T1llm

While I have...issues...with most of what Erik Erickson writes, he is an actual subject matter expert on vote fraud, having prosecuted and defended cases in court regarding improper voting, and he has 2 main points:

 - True fraud (deliberately voting under false pretenses) is rare; most of the time, any irregularities are due to unclear instructions, confusion, poor ballot design, etc.  People who vote by mail are told their vote won't count and vote in person, winding up voting twice, stuff like that.  That sort of stuff happens all the time in every election.   

 - It doesn't happen in numbers large enough to queer anything but the smallest local elections, where the voter pool is like a hundred people or so. 

What most people call "voter" fraud is better termed "campaign" or "election" fraud because it is perpetrated by election officials, not individual voters.  As I always say, all those dead people didn't vote for LBJ by walking into their local polling place with fake ID.  The use of the term "voter" fraud is deliberate, though - it's to subtly imply "those people" should not have their votes counted. 

But yeah, most recently reported cases of actual, documented fraud seem to be perpetrated by Republicans.  Funny, that. 

Offline gillianren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1644 on: November 10, 2020, 10:45:34 AM »
I'm not so worried about a full scale civil war, but I do worry about the small number of lone gunmen and Timothy McVeighs that might be out there.

Sure, absolutely, and I'm worried about that, too.  But I was told recently that I needed to get a gun in my house to protect myself against rampaging mobs of conservatives, and leaving aside that they'd have to do quite a bit of driving to get to me (there's one house in my neighbourhood that had a Trump sign, and I taught the kids the meaning of "schadenfreude" when he took it down), I just don't think it's a bigger problem than the danger of having a gun in a house with kids.
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Offline Peter B

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1645 on: November 11, 2020, 07:17:41 AM »
Quelle surprise......the incompetence continues.



The conspiracist in me says that if they don't fix the defect, then it gets thrown out on a 'technicality', which, as we all know from Hollywood, is how criminals avoid being found guilty of their crimes...!
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1646 on: November 11, 2020, 01:35:07 PM »
The conspiracist in me says that if they don't fix the defect, then it gets thrown out on a 'technicality', which, as we all know from Hollywood, is how criminals avoid being found guilty of their crimes...!

Ha ha, sure.  The Trump campaign has an airtight case, and some corrupt Deep State judge dismisses it on a "technicality."  I'm sure that's the impression they want to create.  The Trump campaign is something like 0-10 on their lawsuits.  They fail either for lack of evidence or lack of standing.  The point is not to win the election.  There's no credible path to victory for Pres. Trump.  Joe Biden now has more of the popular vote than Pres. Reagan won in his 1980 "landslide."  My impression is that the total number of popular votes at stake in all these lawsuits is probably far below what it would take to even change the picture of the Electoral College, much less swing it to Trump.  The Republicans are just trying to erode faith in the kinds of elections they know they can't win:  the kind where everyone gets to vote.  This is probably so that they can continue to dog a Biden Presidency with the narrative that he cheated to win.

Anything that's not the merits of the case can be considered a "technicality," but in terms of how courts decide things, many of them are extremely important.  It's the essence of Due Process and other important rights.  In many cases the courts make an important, conscious decision to let an apparently guilty person go free rather than taint Due Process.  A defendant may be guilty as sin according to a laissez-faire view of the evidence, but in order to allow that evidence to appear, for example, the court might have to chip away at an important Fourth Amendment point.  It's more important to preserve the sanctity of rights for everyone than to convict any one person by bending the rules.  Those are usually the "technicalities" courts speak of when it seems there has been a miscarriage of justice.  And of course it's the incentive for law enforcement not to invade those rights in an investigation.  Prosecutors will try to get away with as much as they can.  In many cases there really are substantive due-process violations, but the defendant is unwilling to take them to trial and chooses a plea agreement.

But there are technicalities and technicalities.  Missing a filing deadline or filing a defective complaint, motion, or petition is incompetence on a level that would probably get you fired at a big firm.  A filing that's missing required documents is never a good thing.  The clerk of the court wields a fair amount of practical power (subject to the Justices, of course), and it's never a good idea to waste their time.  Plus, I went to the Michigan Court Rules web site to read how difficult it is to file an appeal.  It took me a little over one minute to read the relevant section.  I guarantee the judge in the case heard from the clerk what happened.

"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1647 on: November 11, 2020, 01:55:58 PM »
The conspiracist in me says that if they don't fix the defect, then it gets thrown out on a 'technicality', which, as we all know from Hollywood, is how criminals avoid being found guilty of their crimes...!

Ha ha, sure.  The Trump campaign has an airtight case, and some corrupt Deep State judge dismisses it on a "technicality."

I'm worried that the opposite could happen. The Trump campaign has an extremely weak case, but some corrupt judge that he appointed will allow it to proceed due to a biased interpretation of the law.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1648 on: November 11, 2020, 03:57:14 PM »
I'm worried that the opposite could happen. The Trump campaign has an extremely weak case, but some corrupt judge that he appointed will allow it to proceed due to a biased interpretation of the law.

Yup, Bush v. Gore.

And let's be frank: that's exactly what the Republican plan is.  They want at least one case to get to the Supreme Court so that the conservative supermajority they railroaded into it can provide a nationally-binding precedent on some key issue.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1649 on: November 11, 2020, 04:06:38 PM »
Sigh. I hope you guys get through this. If Trump somehow manages to overrule 76 million voters there will be riots that make the BLM protests look like a church picnic.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)