The Trump Presidency

[MBDK]

I started calling him racist because, pretty much as soon as I knew anything about him, it became clear he was racist.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

Confirmation bias?  Democratic hypocrisy?  Both sides have their points.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/02/repeat_with_me_leftists_trump_is_not_a_racist.html

[MBDK]

Your link doesn't work.

Sorry about that.

Just shows how the left ignores reality and keeps pressing lies with impunity.

I already linked to a CNN interview with Trump in which he refused to disavow David Duke's endorsement prior to the 2016 election.

I suggest you re-watch that link, and put it in its proper context with the one I just provided, then search your soul to see if you have enough integrity to admit you were wrong and/or fooled.

I would be more willing to believe Trump misspoke or was misunderstood if it was the only example of him being racist.

How many of your old CT friends did you employ to help you move your goalposts? SMH

All of my reasons for distrusting Trump come from his known behaviour, and the fact that he has been taken to court multiple times for it. What I don't get is how anyone can see how he has behaved in the past and still trust him enough to manage a paper route, nevermind the country.

Confirmation bias.  On both side.

EDIT:  And as a side note, from the evidence in this post, do you still wonder why there are concerns about "fake news"?

[jfb]

I'm amazed that there are so many people who aren't freaking out (even a little bit) over how quickly Trump exposed the ineffectiveness of the "checks and balances" in the US Constitution. But they are free to bury their heads in the sand if they wish.

Trump didn't do that.  McConnell and Ryan did that.  Trump's only caused as much damage as he has because he had willing partners in Congress and on the courts.  McConnell will not let Trump be removed from office. 

I used to think it was because the Russians had dirt on McConnell and other senior Republicans, but I don't believe that anymore - I think it's simply the notion of absolute power corrupting absolutely.  Trump's a nitwit, but as long as he's President, McConnell can basically get anything he wants. 

As I keep saying, Trump isn't the disease, he's merely a symptom of it.  The dismantling of the US as a functioning democracy began decades ago. Blame television, blame cable news, blame social media, blame Newt Gingrich, truth is the GOP drove the car off the cliff in the '80s, we just haven't hit the bottom of the ravine yet. 

Oh, believe me, I agree that McConnell and all of the other Republicans who are protecting Trump (especially Lindsey Graham, Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes, Matt Gaetz, Bill Barr, and Doug Collins) are a big part of the problem. They might even be a bigger problem than Trump. But Trump isn't innocent. He's the one who Tweets 100 times a day about how you can't trust the DoJ, FBI, intelligence agencies, Congress, the free press, whistle blowers, career diplomats, decorated war veterans, or pretty much anyone else that tries to expose his corruption. He pushes the ridiculous "deep state" conspiracy theory. Those are the kinds of attacks on the "checks and balances" that I'm talking about.

And when I said Trump exposed the "ineffectiveness of the checks and balances" it means a lot of different things. The authors of the Constitution didn't seem to anticipate that the majority of Congressmen would circle around a corrupt President to protect him. That would require the entire majority party to be corrupt.

Yeah. 

The framers didn't anticipate a lot of things.  There's a reason Senators originally were not chosen by popular vote. 

I mean, yeah, Trump's got issues, but in a sane country he wouldn't have been elected President in the first place.  He wouldn't have made it into the primaries, much less be the nominee.  Yeah, the GOP is fantastically corrupt (on the national level, at least), but the voters put Trump in office. 

This mess is on the people of the United States.  This is on the people who voted for McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, etc., the people who voted for Trump, and the Democrats who stayed home because their favored unicorn didn't win. Okay, and the Democratic National Committee. 

Oh yes, there's a special place in Hell for a certain segment of Sanders supporters (not all of them, but a good chunk).  They bear as much responsibility for Trump getting elected as anyone else.  I'm an easy-going guy, but there were times at the state and county conventions where I wanted to take a tire iron to some of these people.  Ignorant and entitled, such a lovely combination. 

[LunarOrbit]

Just shows how the left ignores reality and keeps pressing lies with impunity.

The left ignores reality? The left? You found a compilation of Trump disavowing the KKK after he was criticized for publicly refusing to do so. He only disavowed them when he realized it could cost him the election if he didn't.

You're also ignoring ALL of the other examples of his racism. Like the fact that for years he was a proponent of birtherism. He publicly accused Barack Obama of not being an American for no reason other than the fact that he has brown skin and a Muslim sounding name... because he thinks people with brown skin and Muslim names aren't "real Americans". My dad wasn't born in Canada... but strangely no one has ever asked me for my birth certificate when I applied for a job. Could it be because I have white skin and look like "a real Canadian"?

The Laura Ingraham Show, March 2011:

“He doesn’t have a birth certificate, or if he does, there’s something on that certificate that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me—and I have no idea whether this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be—that where it says ‘religion,’ it might have ‘Muslim.’ ”  -- Donald Trump

He opposed the construction of a mosque new Ground Zero because he believes the entire religion is responsible for the terrorism committed by some of it's followers.

He told 4 Democratic congresswomen to "go back to where they came from" even though 3 of them were born in the United States... because he thinks people with brown skin are not real Americans.

He tried to ban all Muslims from entering the United States... because he thinks all Muslims are terrorists.

He took out a full page ads in 4 major New York newspapers in 1989 calling for the death penalty for five black and Latino teens who were falsely accused of raping a white woman. They spent 15 years in prison before being exonerated by DNA evidence and the confession of the actual rapist. But Donald Trump called the settlement they were given "a disgrace", and during the 2016 campaign he insisted they were guilty.

Just because a racist says they aren't racist doesn't mean it's true. Actions speak louder than words.

I would be more willing to believe Trump misspoke or was misunderstood if it was the only example of him being racist.

How many of your old CT friends did you employ to help you move your goalposts? SMH

I don't know, how many of your CT friends did you employ to help you ignore the tons of evidence that conflicts with your belief that Trump isn't racist?

All of my reasons for distrusting Trump come from his known behaviour, and the fact that he has been taken to court multiple times for it. What I don't get is how anyone can see how he has behaved in the past and still trust him enough to manage a paper route, nevermind the country.

Confirmation bias.  On both side.

Yes, there is certainly confirmation bias on your side. "Trump says he isn't racist. Case closed!"

EDIT:  And as a side note, from the evidence in this post, do you still wonder why there are concerns about "fake news"?

Fake news like you find on Fox? Or maybe the fake news about Obama not being an American? Or the fake news that Obama was going to impose Sharia Law and take all your guns? Or the fake news about Hillary running a child sex ring in the basement of a pizza restaurant? Yes, that is a concern.

[MBDK]

The left ignores reality? The left? You found a compilation of Trump disavowing the KKK after he was criticized for publicly refusing to do so. He only disavowed them when he realized it could cost him the election if he didn't.

What an odd thing to say.  Obviously you didn't watch and/or comprehend the link I provided, as his FIRST disavowal was from 2000. 

So exactly WHO is denying reality...again?

You're also ignoring ALL of the other examples of his racism.

How did I do that?  MY comment included quoting the link that contained almost everything you just mentioned.  That is actually the opposite of ignoring them.  All I pointed out was a counter-argument, that clearly shows you have no smoking gun, and confirmation bias IS a very real thing.

I don't know, how many of your CT friends did you employ to help you ignore the tons of evidence that conflicts with your belief that Trump isn't racist?

Since I am kind of a bulldog for science and reason, I don't really have any friends that are CT.  And here YOU are claiming I ignored tons of evidence (which I didn't, as stated above), all the while ignoring the logical fallacy of moving the goalposts, yourself.  Are you beginning to see a familiar pattern here?

Yes, there is certainly confirmation bias on your side. "Trump says he isn't racist. Case closed!"

Denial of the other evidence i provided in my links is willful ignorance.

Fake news like you find on Fox? Or maybe the fake news about Obama not being an American? Or the fake news that Obama was going to impose Sharia Law and take all your guns? Or the fake news about Hillary running a child sex ring in the basement of a pizza restaurant? Yes, that is a concern.

Yes it is.  Do you not agree the fake news from the liberal side is also of a concern?

[LunarOrbit]

The left ignores reality? The left? You found a compilation of Trump disavowing the KKK after he was criticized for publicly refusing to do so. He only disavowed them when he realized it could cost him the election if he didn't.

What an odd thing to say.  Obviously you didn't watch and/or comprehend the link I provided, as his FIRST disavowal was from 2000.

Gee, for someone who isn't a racist, he sure has had to respond to people saying he's racist a lot, eh?

You're also ignoring ALL of the other examples of his racism.

How did I do that?  MY comment included quoting the link that contained almost everything you just mentioned.

What are you even talking about? What link? The one in your reply to Gillianren?

If that's the case, all I see it someone who is even more brainwashed than you basically saying "See, Trump can't be racist! He did something good for a black person!". None of it directly responds to the examples of his racism that I mentioned.

Since I am kind of a bulldog for science and reason, I don't really have any friends that are CT.

For the last 19 years I have spent much of my time debunking conspiracy theorists using science and reason, including here in this forum that I provide at no cost to you, but at great expense to me. Don't you DARE tell me that I am a conspiracy theorist. You can **** off any time now.

You have shut your eyes and ears to the many examples of Trump's lies, corruption, and racism; the same way that CTs shut their eyes and ears to the facts that conflict with their theories. I'm done giving you examples, because you're just going to ignore them.

[MBDK]

Gee, for someone who isn't a racist, he sure has had to respond to people saying he's racist a lot, eh?

Look up the logical fallacy of "The Big Lie", as that is another tactic political parties use.  That video, still directly contradicted your (and others') statement concerning his failure to disavow Duke and the KKK.  Why can you not even admit that? 

What are you even talking about? What link? The one in your reply to Gillianren?

Yes.  I quoted her statement which included the wiki link to all the Trump racist claims.  Plenty of circumstantial evidence, but no smoking gun - just prejudicial interpretations, a.k.a. confirmation bias.

If that's the case, all I see it someone who is even more brainwashed than you basically saying "See, Trump can't be racist! He did something good for a black person!". None of it directly responds to the examples of his racism that I mentioned.

Other than "confirmation bias", I never claimed to.  YOU, on the other hand, said:

Just because a racist says they aren't racist doesn't mean it's true. Actions speak louder than words.

So that was also why I provided the link with examples of his actions, but you seem to have forgotten your last quote already.

For the last 19 years I have spent much of my time debunking conspiracy theorists using science and reason, including here in this forum that I provide at no cost to you, but at great expense to me. Don't you DARE tell me that I am a conspiracy theorist. You can **** off any time now.

Well, in that case, I do apologize.  I was under the impression that you used to argue that there WAS a Moon Hoax, and that you had reasoned through it enough to change your mind.  Still, per my previous assertion, oh so many posts ago, we are ALL able to fall into certain logically fallacious lines of reasoning, and my entire point was to try to point out what I saw as such lapses.  Just as a CT can rigidly adhere to those tactics, I think we should be on guard to identify and prevent the same.

As for your suggestion of how to occupy my time, I will take your advice to heart and proceed to do so, as long as I can.

Oh, and thank YOU for the time, effort and money you have invested in this site.  Despite any disagreement we may have on this topic, I have learned MANY valuable things from you and all the contributors here.  Thank you all.

[LunarOrbit]

Well, in that case, I do apologize.  I was under the impression that you used to argue that there WAS a Moon Hoax, and that you had reasoned through it enough to change your mind.  Still, per my previous assertion, oh so many posts ago, we are ALL able to fall into certain logically fallacious lines of reasoning, and my entire point was to try to point out what I saw as such lapses.  Just as a CT can rigidly adhere to those tactics, I think we should be on guard to identify and prevent the same.

Let's summarize your participation in this thread so far:

You came here and replied to something I said 3 years ago and basically demanded a retraction for something that was 100% true then, and it still is. There were no logical fallacies, no speculation or rumours, and no distortion in what I said, but you still decided to single me out.

Later you admitted that you hadn't even bothered to read enough of the thread to determine one way or the other if your accusations were true. And now you're telling me that you don't even know enough about me to know that I have never been a conspiracy theorist, and that I've been debunking them for almost 20 years.

So you make accusations that are based on poor research, ignore evidence and facts that contradict your preconceived beliefs, make the same logical fallacies that you accuse us of, and then you accuse me of acting like a conspiracy theorist? Go look in the mirror.

As for your suggestion of how to occupy my time, I will take your advice to heart and proceed to do so, as long as I can.

See ya.

[gillianren]

He's conflating you with the original owner of the site, LO.  Which was someone whose interest in Apollo faded as soon as he realized it wasn't a hoax.

"No smoking gun"?  What would count as a smoking gun that proved Trump was a racist?

[LunarOrbit]

He's conflating you with the original owner of the site, LO.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

"No smoking gun"?  What would count as a smoking gun that proved Trump was a racist?

I think if Trump had a black man chained to a wall in the White House basement MBDK would still find a way to spin it. Trump says he isn't racist, so nothing else matters.

[LionKing]

http://m.naharnet.com/stories/en/268248-trump-impeachment-trial-begins-at-u-s-senate

Good news !

[gillianren]

Except for the part where many of the "impartial" Senators are actively working with the administration, and any number of them have flatly said they refuse to consider new evidence.

[jfb]

Except for the part where many of the "impartial" Senators are actively working with the administration, and any number of them have flatly said they refuse to consider new evidence.

As badly as the Senate Democrats behaved during Clinton's impeachment, they never stated outright that they were going to work hand-in-hand with the White House during the trial phase (at least, not that I remember).  And Mitch and Linds were staunch advocates of bringing in witnesses and opening up the scope of the investigation. 

Hell burns hottest for hypocrites, but the Republican leadership in the Senate is setting all kinds of benchmarks for shamelessness.  Yeah, you expect partisanship (impeachment is an inherently political process), but at the end of the day you want to believe that everyone has the country's best interests at heart (even if they disagree on what those best interests are).  I don't believe that with this bunch.  I honestly do not believe that Mitch and Linds and Marco give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves, and that they would happily screw over the proles if it meant enriching themselves and their friends. 

I would not be at all surprised if at least one of these assholes suggests suspending elections in 2020 (in order to "protect democracy", you see - expect to hear accusations "voter fraud" cranked up to 11).  We're already a police state, wouldn't take much to push us all the way into banana republic territory. 

[LionKing]

Except for the part where many of the "impartial" Senators are actively working with the administration, and any number of them have flatly said they refuse to consider new evidence.

Then I think the people should go down to the streets to put pressure on them and show them that they are monitored

[grmcdorman]

Problem is that many of the Republican supports are OK with that. The hard-core Trump supporters, in particular, according to what I've read pretty much believe most of Trump's claims.