Author Topic: Shenzhou 7?  (Read 211318 times)

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #405 on: February 13, 2013, 07:17:26 AM »
If I am the only one who feels this way about your tone, then I withdraw my comments and apologise.

I don't think that would be necessary. Your views are your views, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

For the record my first thought on reading it was that it had a kind of 'hello cruel forum' tone (if that makes sense), and that the lengthy apology, while welcome and appreciated, was somewhat undercut by the suggestion we had run him off the forum and the comments about how we would likely react to his return.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #406 on: February 13, 2013, 07:44:22 AM »
Vincent, you were not "run off" the forums.  You were asked to present your evidence and back up your claims, a rule which everyone who posts here is expected to adhere to.

I appreciate your apology, but I think perhaps you don't really understand why people got annoyed.  Your tone in the post above sounds very high and mighty and it might be that attitude which puts people's backs up.  I appreciate that might not be your intent and I do not say these things to injure you, but merely to be open and honest about why I think your relationships with others on the board might be a bit strained.  If I am the only one who feels this way about your tone, then I withdraw my comments and apologise.

I agree with Andromeda.

Vincent, your apology sounds insincere to me.  An "official apology" is made by an officer speaking for an organization.  A individual speaking for himself can only make a personal apology.  Perhaps that is what you meant and this will appear to you to be nit picking, but using exaggerated language is not the way to communicate your personal position to others.  Putting quotes around your claim of being "'run off'" does not make them any less of a provocation and it also makes you words seem insincere. 

If you really want to reintegrate yourself back in to this community, a simple and personal explanation for your change of heart is best.  Followed by postings that reflect that change of heart.  So far you you still seem to be the same loner that left in a huff because your personal beliefs were challenged.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 07:48:19 AM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #407 on: February 13, 2013, 09:15:22 AM »
I wasn't a part of the previous discussion so I don't know anything about that.  However, if you want to fit in here all you need to do is be polite and respectful, do not make indefensible arguments, and if you do need to defend an argument, do so in a civil manner.  Also, make your contributions within the flow of the discussion.  Don't preach or talk over people.  Acknowledge what others have said and add to the discussion when you have something of value to say.  And learn from others whenever possible - don't assume you know more.

Offline VincentMcConnell

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #408 on: February 13, 2013, 01:07:26 PM »
I agree with Andromeda.
Vincent, your apology sounds insincere to me.  An "official apology" is made by an officer speaking for an organization.

What I mean by "official" is that it's my legitimate post to officially return to these forums and explain what I feel needs to be said. So if you prefer to word it as "personal", that is fine.

To all the people saying I was not "run-off" these forums, maybe I just used the wrong choice of words. What I meant to say was, this was the thread which resulted in my departure and hiatus from this forum.
"It looks better now, Al. What change did you make?"
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Offline Echnaton

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #409 on: February 13, 2013, 01:30:07 PM »
So if you prefer to word it as "personal", that is fine.

That is the problem, it wasn't really personal. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline VincentMcConnell

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #410 on: February 13, 2013, 02:02:39 PM »
That is the problem, it wasn't really personal.

No... Personal just doesn't transfer through text. What did you want me to do? Send you money? Typing something out is the best I can do on a forum.
"It looks better now, Al. What change did you make?"
"I just hit it on the top with my hammer."

-Mission Control and Alan Bean on Apollo 12 after the TV camera failed.

Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #411 on: February 13, 2013, 02:17:23 PM »
That is the problem, it wasn't really personal.

No... Personal just doesn't transfer through text. What did you want me to do? Send you money? Typing something out is the best I can do on a forum.

You could have written a less pompous apology, for a start.
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline VincentMcConnell

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #412 on: February 13, 2013, 02:25:48 PM »
You could have written a less pompous apology, for a start.

Such as? The current explains the situation pretty well, since we're dealing with something that happened 8 months ago...
"It looks better now, Al. What change did you make?"
"I just hit it on the top with my hammer."

-Mission Control and Alan Bean on Apollo 12 after the TV camera failed.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #413 on: February 13, 2013, 02:48:59 PM »
How about "I'm sorry I was such a jerk"?  "I'm sorry I made unsupported assumptions and then disparaged people who disagreed with them"?  Vincent, almost everyone on the forum is older and more educated than you are, and most of them have years of professional experience in relevant fields.  Yet you always come across as though you are trying to teach them, as though they know less than you do.  You might want to look to that.
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Offline Echnaton

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #414 on: February 13, 2013, 03:34:16 PM »
That is the problem, it wasn't really personal.

No... Personal just doesn't transfer through text. What did you want me to do? Send you money? Typing something out is the best I can do on a forum.
A friendly suggestion, and hopefully my last word on the topic; this is just something you need to work out. 


ETA: So it wasn't the absolute last word.  There is a substantial space between an "Official" announcement and "Send you some money" that you might want to explore. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 05:26:22 PM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #415 on: February 13, 2013, 04:23:52 PM »
Such as?

Such as 'sorry I was unable to conduct a reasoned argument without disparaging others who know more about the subject than me simply by virtue of their greater years and experience'?

Vincent, you're not a moron. You're clearly passionate about whatever subject you set your mind to researching. The problem, as gillianren says, is that you present that learning sometimes as if, once hearing about it, it's the be all and end all and everyone must be impressed with your level of understanding. Believe me, if your knowledge is impressive people will be impressed. If they are not impressed, and they tell you why, you need to listen to that because it might just be that your understanding is incomplete. And I'm sorry but the fact is that your age does matter here. As an example, I am more than twice your age. I have been looking at stuff relating to astronomy and Apollo and other related subjects longer than you have been alive. My education in the relevant fields has progressed further than yours. That doesn't mean I know everything and you can't possibly tell me things I don't know, but it does mean that you can't, for example, lecture me on physics as you tried to do more than once in this thread.

The most frustrating thing for us was that you first came on here vehemently defending Jarrah White and the notion that the Apollo missions were faked. Then after some time interacting here you realised your mistake and came back having 'switched sides', so to speak. Fine. But then you came on just as vehemently attacking the validity of the Shenzhou missions, showing no indication that you had learned anything beyond the technical details of Apollo from your time discussing it with us. Nothing about the way arguments need to be presented and supported. Nothing about who and what constitute reliable sources of information. Nothing about how the people here knew what they knew and how they applied it, which might have made you think twice before saying some of the things that you have now apologised for in the first place.

And then, after all that, to come on here making a big announcement about your return, and using terms like 'run off' to describe what was in fact simply you retreating from the discussion for whatever reason, makes me wonder what it is you expect in response.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline ka9q

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #416 on: February 13, 2013, 11:53:28 PM »
Vincent's young. He'll learn. I did.

At least he's saying he's willing to learn, and that puts him ahead of many other people his age. And certainly light-years ahead of any hoaxer.



Offline gillianren

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #417 on: February 14, 2013, 11:15:39 AM »
At least he's saying he's willing to learn, and that puts him ahead of many other people his age. And certainly light-years ahead of any hoaxer.

There's a difference between saying it and showing it.  One is important.  The problem is the repeated behaviour, or anyway one of the problems is the repeated behaviour.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline ka9q

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #418 on: February 15, 2013, 02:35:45 AM »
Yes. Still, even just saying it does put him ahead...

Offline ChrLz

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Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #419 on: February 15, 2013, 05:17:20 AM »
For me, I adhere strictly to the well-documented "once bitten - twice shy" theorem.  Now .. many people think this is a simple linear equation and, ergo-therefore, that I should now be just thrice shy given Vincent's two bites..

However, I believe it's a volumetric sorta thing, so I'm feeling octo-shy.

Did that make any sense to anyone?