Author Topic: Shenzhou 7?  (Read 159483 times)

Offline Jason Thompson

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1601
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #225 on: June 28, 2012, 03:18:22 AM »
A named expert in what, exactly?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline SolusLupus

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #226 on: June 28, 2012, 03:21:41 AM »
Uh, even if we accept the source completely and without questioning it, what exactly does any of it demonstrate?  That could easily be recorded footage instead of live.

Either way, I took up his offer and went ahead and got an account at Space-Track.
“Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth, follow only beauty, and obey only love.” -- Kahlil Gibran

My blog about life, universe, and everything: http://solusl.blogspot.com/

Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
    • evilscience
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #227 on: June 28, 2012, 04:37:31 AM »
Quote
there still exists a possibility that they faked the video (for fear of broadcast a failure) while actually did perform the EVA—we don’t know.

Speculation does not equal proof.

Quote
I am sure the video was faked

Speculation does not equal proof.

Quote
There. A named expert for you. And I'm willing to bet there are many...many more out there that simply aren't saying anything.

An expert in what exactly?

Vincent, how many times must you be told that bits of text do not constitute proof.

Also, your goalposts are moving again: you've gone from having definate proof from an expert and are now on vague reckonings from a person of unknown provenance. Give it up son!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 06:27:50 AM by Inanimate Carbon Rod »
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline Abaddon

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1132
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #228 on: June 28, 2012, 05:09:55 AM »
So Dr. Zheng emailed me back at his JPL address.
He does still believe the mission was a hoax. Here is his exact email to me:

Quote
Yes, but what I found was that the video was a faked ‘live cast’, there still exists a possibility that they faked the video (for fear of broadcast a failure) while actually did perform the EVA—we don’t know.
I am sure the video was faked because I did orbital analysis with SZ-7 and compared the scene in the ‘live video’ and found many inconsistencies, e.g. the spacecraft was actually flying over a land while the ‘live video’ showed ocean on its camera (pointing backward of its moving direction).
Sorry I don’t have time for now to explain the details, but if you are interested I could later send you my communications with a friend on this. If you happen to be an amateur radio /astronomy fan you could do the orbital analysis yourself. The orbital parameters (TLE) can be downloaded from http://www.space-track.org/ , the catalogue number for SZ-7 is 33386.
-Dr. Qu Zheng.

I got his permission to use his statements in my argument. There. A named expert for you. And I'm willing to bet there are many...many more out there that simply aren't saying anything.

It is astonishing that after so long as an Apollo hoax believer, you ceased believing in the hoax, and became convinced of the reality of Apollo.

Yet here you are, applying all the same dud arguments to Shenzou.

This will not end well for you.

Offline Abaddon

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1132
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #229 on: June 28, 2012, 05:16:32 AM »
A named expert in what, exactly?
Nothing related to spacefilght, but hey, when did that stop anyone making wild claims ever?

Offline carpediem

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #230 on: June 28, 2012, 05:58:08 AM »
Vincent, could you ask your new friend if:

1 Dr. Qu Zheng representative of The Epoch Times http://www.zoominfo.com/#!search/profile/person?personId=1361651996&targetid=profile

2. Qu Zheng, Epoch Times columnist http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/8-1-12/63966.html

3. Qu Zheng, Speaker on behalf of Alliance for the Global Quitting the Chinese Communist Party http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-7-7/30373.html

4.Dr. Qu Zheng, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/shenzhou-vii-fake-spacewalk-5809.html

5. Zheng Qu, A research scientist at CalTech http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-states/parade-in-nyc-explains-falun-gong-17833.html

Are all the same person?
I found the Chinese versions of the articles for 2 & 4, and they both use the same Chinese characters '曲錚', but maybe it's just a common name.

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1490
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #231 on: June 28, 2012, 09:40:24 AM »
So Dr. Zheng emailed me back at his JPL address.
He does still believe the mission was a hoax. Here is his exact email to me:

Quote
Yes, but what I found was that the video was a faked ‘live cast’, there still exists a possibility that they faked the video (for fear of broadcast a failure) while actually did perform the EVA—we don’t know.
I am sure the video was faked because I did orbital analysis with SZ-7 and compared the scene in the ‘live video’ and found many inconsistencies, e.g. the spacecraft was actually flying over a land while the ‘live video’ showed ocean on its camera (pointing backward of its moving direction).
Sorry I don’t have time for now to explain the details, but if you are interested I could later send you my communications with a friend on this. If you happen to be an amateur radio /astronomy fan you could do the orbital analysis yourself. The orbital parameters (TLE) can be downloaded from http://www.space-track.org/ , the catalogue number for SZ-7 is 33386.
-Dr. Qu Zheng.

I got his permission to use his statements in my argument. There. A named expert for you. And I'm willing to bet there are many...many more out there that simply aren't saying anything.
So essentially, your"expert" failed to support several of your statements.

Quote
I'm really convinced Shenzhou 7 was not real.
Not supported, you expert says that "perhaps they actually did perform the EVA—we don’t know."

Quote
Speeding the footage up would cause everything to look like it was not underwater.
Your contention that it was or might have been shot under water then manipulated to make it appear to be in space was refuted by your expert who believes the video was "a faked ‘live cast.’ "

Finally, you have only established your expert as an "expert" by the fact he has a JPL email address.  Hardly convincing.   I have, at various times, had university email addresses, none of which, nor the education received at the schools, make me an expert on anything. 


Your "expert" doesn't leave you with much to work with. 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 09:43:51 AM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Andromeda

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #232 on: June 28, 2012, 10:15:44 AM »

He does still believe the mission was a hoax. Here is his exact email to me:


Bollocks.  He said he thinks the video was faked, NOT the mission.

And how in heck is he an "expert"?  He does not appear to have any qualifications in space flight at all, his area of expertise is somewhere completely different.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline ka9q

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3014
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #233 on: June 28, 2012, 10:38:10 AM »
Why do I care what a Dr. Zheng thinks? Are all your arguments made by appealing to authorities you select according to whether they tell you what you want to hear?

Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
    • evilscience
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #234 on: June 28, 2012, 10:38:58 AM »
Bollocks

Thank you for saying what everyone else was only thinking  ;D
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline Andromeda

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #235 on: June 28, 2012, 11:03:56 AM »
Why do I care what a Dr. Zheng thinks? Are all your arguments made by appealing to authorities you select according to whether they tell you what you want to hear?

Good point.  There are many, many experts saying that the video was real but you have chosen to ignore them and focus on one person who isn't an expert at all.

Going by qualifications, I am more of an expert on this than Dr Zheng, but you dismiss me.  Why is that?


Bollocks

Thank you for saying what everyone else was only thinking  ;D

 :)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline carpediem

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #236 on: June 28, 2012, 11:07:28 AM »

Offline Jason Thompson

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1601
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #237 on: June 28, 2012, 11:29:34 AM »
Just in case you still don't get it, Vincent, the fact that he 'works for JPL' does not make him an expert. I worked for Pfizer, but I know next to nothing about Viagra.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Andromeda

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #238 on: June 28, 2012, 11:56:57 AM »

I haven't gotten the chance to do ANYTHING underwater in the last few days.

Why not?

What happened after you posted this:

I am off to the pool now to test something in a neutral buoyancy environment. 

...


Be right back everyone.
?

Let me guess, you didn't manage to get the flag to move underwater the way you said it would, in fact it behaved exactly as other posters here predicted... and you don't want to admit it.

Vincent, if you've realised you were wrong, it's okay.  Just say so.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
    • evilscience
Re: Shenzhou 7?
« Reply #239 on: June 28, 2012, 03:05:04 PM »


Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for Vincent.
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.