Bart Sibrel's "A Funny Thing Happened" edits

[brabanthallen]

An issue has come up with a hoaxer I am addressing and I am not quite sure of the answer.  In Bart Sibrel's film "A Funny Thing..", he shows a clip from Apollo 11 in which the earth is filmed out of the left side CM window.  Sibrel cuts the clip short and does not show the entire clip as it pans across the interior of the CM and shows the earth out of the opposite window (proving there were no "cut outs" or "transparencies").  NOW, after doing quite a bit of research, I am quite puzzled.  During this TV broadcast, and according to the com loop of A-11 (beginning at 56:39), the PTC (Passive Thermal Control - "barbecue roll") was apparently stopped/slowed almost completely, in order to get a good aim at Goldstone from the S-band/high gain antenna(s).  The first part of the TV broadcast shows the earth virtually motionless in the left CM window for quite some time.  Near the end of the clip (the part Sibrel edited out) the CM is obviously rolling again  as the earth moves around and is then seen out of the right side CM window.  After the TV broadcast was finished, Charlie Duke (on CAPCOM) informs Armstrong that Houston would like them to perform a waste water dump and begin PTC again at about 58:00 hrs.  The PTC was to be 3 revolutions/hour as they were nearing the point where the lunar gravity would begin to take control of the spacecraft.  This is where I am puzzled.  If they needed to start PTC again, why was the spacecraft already in a PTC roll during the film clip?  Anybody?

[onebigmonkey]

Have you got a link to the full clip?

[Jason Thompson]

The first part of the TV broadcast shows the earth virtually motionless in the left CM window for quite some time.  Near the end of the clip (the part Sibrel edited out) the CM is obviously rolling again  as the earth moves around and is then seen out of the right side CM window.

It's not the Earth moving, it's the camera. With the positions of the windows the Earth could be seen out of pretty much any of the CM windows provided the camera was angled correctly. The side windows are the biggest so provided the best options for viewing. Remember that all five windows are a) on one side of the spacecraft, and b) on a conical spacecraft. All of them, to varying degrees, have a field of view forward and to one side of the spacecraft.

[brabanthallen]

This is the part of the unedited clip in question in full:   

Greater Sapien posted a video with commentary where he syncs up this video with Sibrel's: 

These clips are from Day 3 TV transmission (Beginning about 55:20).  Now the day before (Day 2) on the com loop, A-11 is directed specifically to exit PTC and given a specific attitude for having the earth out of the left hand window and for optimum TV transmission at 32:25:48 by Charlie Duke.  Collins then proceeds to ask if he can achieve the desired stoppage and attitude manually.  Collins reports PTC has stopped at 33:47:57.  On day 3 at 54:39:35, Houston recommends stopping PTC for TV transmission, and an attitude is given again for placement of the earth through the left side window (window 1).  I'm just puzzled since apparently in both days' TV transmissions, PTC roll is stopped for the TV broadcast and not begun again until the broadcast is over, yet the recording (apparently) shows the roll still going on in the transmission beginning about 55:20 clip (the clip used in MTMind 2's and Sibrel's movie).

[onebigmonkey]

OK, a couple of things. Firstly, I'd have to agree with Jason Thompson - it's the camera moving from one window to an adjacent one with some shaky camerawork on top.

This utterly fantastic thing will allow you to visualise the movement:

https://3d.si.edu/apollo11cm/boxes/play-cm-ext-rc6-int-rc5/cm-interior.html

Takes a while to load - use left mouse button to pan around the view, right mouse button changes the position of the viewer. My word it's fantastic

Secondly. the clip you posted is from an unscheduled camera test made at 30:28 - not the scheduled transmissions. PTC may not have been stopped at that point! Go to about 19:30 on here

[Jason Thompson]

Having looked at the clip more closely, I don't even think the window the Earth appears in after it moves out of the first one is even the right hand window. Judging by the shape it looks more like the lefthand rendezvous window.

Even if it is the righthand rendezvous window, however, here are some things to notice. Firstly, when the camera pulls pack from the Earth and reveals the window edge, you can clearly see the samera is pointing forwards. For a brief time the edge of the window is visible and on the right hand side you can see all the layers and the thickness of the window edge, while on the left is just the inside edge. The camera is at an angle to the glass, aiming forward. Otherwise you'd only see the edge of the window all around, not the whole thickness of the framework along one edge. The second window is clearly not one of the large square ones but appears more triangular and smaller, indicating it is a rendezvous window. Both of these point forward. Again the window is foreshortened, suggesting an angle which would be required to avoid looking right at the LM out of that window.

In shorter terms, it is entirely possible for the camera to have the same line of sight to the Earth from either of the two rendezvous windows as from the left side window, or indeed from any of the others, given the angle and location of all the windows on the spacecraft.

[onebigmonkey]

I think both windows are the left side. Here's a screenshot from that 3D scan I linked to above



The camera starts off on the left, pans right over a light source, then looks out again.

The light source is definitely the equipment between the two windows, as can be seen in this shot:



Moot point anyway - the time of the broadcast means it was still in PTC, but even in PTC the roll speed is surely not going to make such a big change in view over that short amount of time?

[brabanthallen]

After watching the clip several times again, I have to agree with both you guys, Jason and Monkey, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.  Monkey, the top photo you posted is a very big help and shows pretty clearly exactly where the camera panned across.  The tool you shared is AMAZING.  I believe the clip begins out of the left hand window (window 5) and pans past the interior light to the left hand rendezvous window (window 4).  The PTC roll was apparently 3 revolutions per hour, which works out to 18 degrees/minute.  Makes sense.  I think they would have been able to film the earth out of either window, PTC or not.  Thanks guys.

[William Wagner]

 I must confess that I am relatively new to this subject however; I am beginning to see that this is the style of video clips that Apollo hoax believers do not share with the public in their video productions.

[raven]

I must confess that I am relatively new to this subject however; I am beginning to see that this is the style of video clips that Apollo hoax believers do not share with the public in their video productions.

I call people like Sibrel and David Percy 'conspiracy mongers'. They probably don't truly believe, but they are willing to put together shit that people who do believe will eat up, using deceitful editing to make their claims seem more plausible.

[bknight]

I must confess that I am relatively new to this subject however; I am beginning to see that this is the style of video clips that Apollo hoax believers do not share with the public in their video productions.

I call people like Sibrel and David Percy 'conspiracy mongers'. They probably don't truly believe, but they are willing to put together shit that people who do believe will eat up, using deceitful editing to make their claims seem more plausible.

This is done mostly for profit in some way to the producers of the videos.  And I do believe that Sibrel and Percy believe that a hoax was perpetrated.  I remember a video, where Mary Bennett, David Percy and Marcus Allen (there could have been others) sitting around a table discussing the "problems" with the Apollo flight to the moon.  Although I don't have it booked nor do I remember all the "problems" discussed they included:
1. Radiation
2. Cold Film temperature and what that does to the emulsions and "backing"
3. Shadows being not parallel
4. And others

[BazBear]

I must confess that I am relatively new to this subject however; I am beginning to see that this is the style of video clips that Apollo hoax believers do not share with the public in their video productions.

I call people like Sibrel and David Percy 'conspiracy mongers'. They probably don't truly believe, but they are willing to put together shit that people who do believe will eat up, using deceitful editing to make their claims seem more plausible.

This is done mostly for profit in some way to the producers of the videos.  And I do believe that Sibrel and Percy believe that a hoax was perpetrated.  I remember a video, where Mary Bennett, David Percy and Marcus Allen (there could have been others) sitting around a table discussing the "problems" with the Apollo flight to the moon.  Although I don't have it booked nor do I remember all the "problems" discussed they included:
1. Radiation
2. Cold Film temperature and what that does to the emulsions and "backing"
3. Shadows being not parallel
4. And others

Those people, to me, don't seem dull or delusional enough to buy the hoax shit. Of course, that sort of subjective observation of people in other realms (YEC for instance) makes me wonder; maybe they are that daft.

[Count Zero]

A while back (12 years - egad!) I compared the weather patterns in the video clips to weather maps on those days.  Link

Since then, OneBigMonkey has done a lot more work with weather satellite images.  Link