Radiation

[timfinch]

You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.

Seriously, tim. Apollo briefly traversed the edge of the outer belt during TLI and Orion EFT orbited within the inner belt during Earth orbit. And you are pretending to claim that there is no significant difference between Orion and Apollo. In that case, my commute to the office this morning is not significantly different from Shackleton's expedition.

Back up your opinion with facts.  FActs like the actual inclination of apollo 11 upon entering the VAB as compared to the Orion EFT.  We are beyond the opinion stage and have moved into the "put up or shut phase".

[bknight]

You have been lied to.  Here is the actual path through the VAB.  One must be aware the the center of the VAB is not aligned with the earths equatorial plane rather it is aligned with the magnetic equator which is offset 11.5 degrees.  This results in the lunar orbit being 17.15 degrees into the magnetic equatorial plane.  The only region of the VAB not encountered in a VAB transit is the 2*10^8 flux at the very heart.  It's path is through the 1*10^8 region (half as much).

Orbits are not straight.

You've been deceived by some HB, that is not the path as it is not a straight line but it is curved in 2-D as well as curved in 3-D pulling away from the VARB.  Bob's 2-D rendering is far more accurate than this.

What actually is the mechanism of this curve?  Is the lunar plane curved also?  Is it a parabolic curve.  Or are you simply stating that because the universe is curved then the TLI must also be curved?

[bknight]

You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.

No,, that's not the general path Apollo traveled, where did you get this piece of misinformation?

The TLI  or Holtzmann maneuver places the craft in orbit around the earth on a plane with the moon.  After this orbit is established a rocket is fired to expand the orbit into an elliptical one that intersects the moon.  All lunar landings have used this approach.  The lunar plane is the TLI plane.

There are no straight paths, orbital mechanics is not your strong suite either.

[Allan F]

You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.

Seriously, tim. Apollo briefly traversed the edge of the outer belt during TLI and Orion EFT orbited within the inner belt during Earth orbit. And you are pretending to claim that there is no significant difference between Orion and Apollo. In that case, my commute to the office this morning is not significantly different from Shackleton's expedition.

Back up your opinion with facts.  FActs like the actual inclination of apollo 11 upon entering the VAB as compared to the Orion EFT.  We are beyond the opinion stage and have moved into the "put up or shut phase".

You can find all the relevant orbital information on the website "Apollo By The Numbers".

[timfinch]

Tim, your pomposity is embarrassing.  You go on about how you're going to completely school everyone, but when you're asked to do tiny amounts of work, you can't do it.  You frequently resort to claiming that everything you don't understand about Apollo is magic.  Your insistence that you are smarter than everyone and that everyone else is just stupid doesn't actually make you look smarter.  It makes you look obnoxious.  Especially because you still haven't answered how you're certain that the answer to your issues is "I have made a mistake."

Gillianren,  It is not that I cannot do the calculations.  Surely I have demonstrated and superior level of knowledge in he subject matter to all interested parties.  I see these attempts as mere distraction to prevent from engaging the elephant in the room.  They would lead down a meandering path to know where for no other reason than to prevent addressing the real topic.  They lack the intellectual integrity to address these issues because their entire beliefs system is built on a foundation of obvious lies aqnd will crumble with the slightest nudge.  I am nudging....

[bknight]

You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.

Seriously, tim. Apollo briefly traversed the edge of the outer belt during TLI and Orion EFT orbited within the inner belt during Earth orbit. And you are pretending to claim that there is no significant difference between Orion and Apollo. In that case, my commute to the office this morning is not significantly different from Shackleton's expedition.

Back up your opinion with facts.  FActs like the actual inclination of apollo 11 upon entering the VAB as compared to the Orion EFT.  We are beyond the opinion stage and have moved into the "put up or shut phase".

I asked you this toward the beginning of the thread, cite a source the trajectory of Orion and Apollo are the same.  But I understand why you never answered it, you don't know and they are very different.  Again you know nothing about orbital mechanics, along with radiation.

[timfinch]

You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.

Seriously, tim. Apollo briefly traversed the edge of the outer belt during TLI and Orion EFT orbited within the inner belt during Earth orbit. And you are pretending to claim that there is no significant difference between Orion and Apollo. In that case, my commute to the office this morning is not significantly different from Shackleton's expedition.

Back up your opinion with facts.  FActs like the actual inclination of apollo 11 upon entering the VAB as compared to the Orion EFT.  We are beyond the opinion stage and have moved into the "put up or shut phase".

You can find all the relevant orbital information on the website "Apollo By The Numbers".

Is that were they keep the Orion facts also?  Provide the correct numbers or spectate.  We are here to demonstrate knowledge of the truth.  Show me your truth.  I showed you mine ;-)

[timfinch]

You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.

Seriously, tim. Apollo briefly traversed the edge of the outer belt during TLI and Orion EFT orbited within the inner belt during Earth orbit. And you are pretending to claim that there is no significant difference between Orion and Apollo. In that case, my commute to the office this morning is not significantly different from Shackleton's expedition.

Back up your opinion with facts.  FActs like the actual inclination of apollo 11 upon entering the VAB as compared to the Orion EFT.  We are beyond the opinion stage and have moved into the "put up or shut phase".

I asked you this toward the beginning of the thread, cite a source the trajectory of Orion and Apollo are the same.  But I understand why you never answered it, you don't know and they are very different.  Again you know nothing about orbital mechanics, along with radiation.

I provided you with real numbers and not opinions.  Silence me by countering them with something other than your opinion.  Show me the money or accept them as true.  if the glove fits...

[Zakalwe]

Or are you simply stating that because the universe is curved then the TLI must also be curved?

What ARE you gibbering on about??? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about here.

[timfinch]

I would like to proceed with the dissection of your of the foundation of your belief system.  This will be a complete dismembering of traditionally held distortions and outright lies.  The first of these is that a low radiation path through the VAB was selected and flown.  To complete this surgical removal of the tumor of misconception we need to agree upon somethings.  Either accept or reject the path of the Orion and the Apollo are almost identical or provide information to the contrary.  Humiliate me with fact and not opinions.  You know what they say about opinions?

[Abaddon]

You have been lied to.  Here is the actual path through the VAB.  One must be aware the the center of the VAB is not aligned with the earths equatorial plane rather it is aligned with the magnetic equator which is offset 11.5 degrees.  This results in the lunar orbit being 17.15 degrees into the magnetic equatorial plane.  The only region of the VAB not encountered in a VAB transit is the 2*10^8 flux at the very heart.  It's path is through the 1*10^8 region (half as much).

You've been deceived by some HB, that is not the path as it is not a straight line but it is curved in 2-D as well as curved in 3-D pulling away from the VARB.  Bob's 2-D rendering is far more accurate than this.

What actually is the mechanism of this curve?  Is the lunar plane curved also?  Is it a parabolic curve.  Or are you simply stating that because the universe is curved then the TLI must also be curved?

And the dumb questions just keep on giving.

[timfinch]

Or are you simply stating that because the universe is curved then the TLI must also be curved?

What ARE you gibbering on about??? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about here.

Provide that the craft left the lunar orbital plane.  If it did not then it's path can be represented by a straight line on a 2d drawing.  That's what I am talking about!  What have you brought to the feast of inequities?

[Allan F]

Why don't you provide EVIDENCE for your claim that the trajectories - ALL NINE OF THEM - was the same as used for Orion?

[timfinch]

Why don't you provide EVIDENCE for your claim that the trajectories - ALL NINE OF THEM - was the same as used for Orion?

You would not ask this question if you understood how and why the path of lunar injection is determined.  Let me see if I can get my research assistant freed up long enough to do your research for you.

[Zakalwe]

Provide that the craft left the lunar orbital plane.  If it did not then it's path can be represented by a straight line on a 2d drawing.  That's what I am talking about!  What have you brought to the feast of inequities?

You know that moment when you realise that you've in the bottom of a deep hole that you've dug for yourself? At that point it might be a good idea to put down at least one of the shovels Tim....