Radiation

[Abaddon]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would be inclination. 

Super. except that it isn't.

[Luke Pemberton]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would inclination.

Do you think the radiation is uniform? Yes or no. I appeal to LO that Tim answers this question. I want to ascertain his understanding of the VABs which I have asked about several times.

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[timfinch]

The Orion spent roughly two hours in the high radiation of the inner belt and supposedly the apollo spent a total of about 4 hours.  It matters not the speed when you really think about it.  The defining factors are time and radiation levels.  We know that The Apollo 11 mission occurred during solar max and we know the electron belt expands during solar maximum.  We also know that the Orion has had significant upgrades to it's shielding.  Usings Orion's mission dose as a base line for the Apollo 11's mission wold be extremely conservative.  Orion's mission dose is 15 mgy wich is 8 times higher than Apollo's

[timfinch]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would inclination.

Do you think the radiation is uniform? Yes or no. I appeal to LO that Tim answers this question. I want to ascertain his understanding of the VABs which I have asked about several times.

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

did you answer my question?  You first.

[timfinch]

This side view indicates that radially the radiation would be uniform  at any given radii.  That is to say as long as you were measuring from the same distance from earth then it matters not what azimuth you choose.

[Luke Pemberton]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would inclination.

Do you think the radiation is uniform? Yes or no. I appeal to LO that Tim answers this question. I want to ascertain his understanding of the VABs which I have asked about several times.

did you answer my question?  You first.

What do you think? Tell me what you know, is the radiation uniform?

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

[timfinch]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would inclination.

Do you think the radiation is uniform? Yes or no. I appeal to LO that Tim answers this question. I want to ascertain his understanding of the VABs which I have asked about several times.

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

did you answer my question?  You first.

What do you think? Tell me what you know, is the radiation uniform?

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

Do you not read my post?  I told you it is for a given radii.  Do you need a translator?

[timfinch]

It is like walking through quicksand....

[timfinch]

Break time.  BBL.

[molesworth]

Let's talk about these differences.  Is it you are implying that there exist a difference in the van allen belt radially along it's inner wall?  Is the radiation not uniform 360 degrees around the earth?

In a very basic and simplistic view, yes, the VAB encompasses 360 degrees around Earth.  Although that leaves out a lot of detail and makes a lot of assumptions.

In a more realistic, and relevant view, it is not uniform, and it has a specific, approximately toroidal shape, aka a doughnut (donut for you folks on the west of the Atlantic) aligned closely with the Earth's geomagnetic axis - not the physical axis, ecliptic, or the Moon's orbital plane.

This torus is a three-dimensional shape, and the extent above and below the "geomagnetic equator" is well mapped.  It is relatively straightforward to calculate an orbit which travels above and below the doughnut, or which only intersects particular parts of it.

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that all orbits must be aligned to the same plane as the VAB, and must necessarily pass through the centre...

[Luke Pemberton]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would inclination.

Do you think the radiation is uniform? Yes or no. I appeal to LO that Tim answers this question. I want to ascertain his understanding of the VABs which I have asked about several times.

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

did you answer my question?  You first.

What do you think? Tell me what you know, is the radiation uniform?

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

Do you not read my post?  I told you it is for a given radii.  Do you need a translator?

For a given radii? You tell me. Are we working in three dimensions or two?

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[molesworth]

The Orion spent roughly two hours in the high radiation of the inner belt and supposedly the apollo spent a total of about 4 hours.

Straight question - do you believe the Apollo trajectories took them through the same high-radiation regions as Orion?  Supplementary point - if so, have you calculated the time spent in this region for Apollo, given the difference in velocities?

It matters not the speed when you really think about it.

Except that it does, very obviously, from even the most basic understanding of maths...

The defining factors are time and radiation levels.  We know that The Apollo 11 mission occurred during solar max and we know the electron belt expands during solar maximum.  We also know that the Orion has had significant upgrades to it's shielding.  Usings Orion's mission dose as a base line for the Apollo 11's mission wold be extremely conservative.  Orion's mission dose is 15 mgy wich is 8 times higher than Apollo's

The Orion mission had very different objectives to Apollo, and took a very different approach to achieving said objectives.  You're comparing apples to kumquats!

[molesworth]

Since you keep reposting the same links :

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/JSC_OrionEFT-1_PressKit_accessible.pdf

A press kit (do you even understand what that means) describing the planned mission, which clearly explains that it is a test flight, intended to provide information on how the spacecraft's systems perform in conditions which can't easily be replicated on Earth.  This flight wasn't intended to be a typical profile for manned missions, and nowhere in any material I've seen on Orion has any such statement been made.

https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_18-21_Earth_Orbit_Data.htm

And?  What do these numbers tell you?  Have you made any effort to plot the orbits in three dimensions to get a better picture of them?

More importantly, how does this relate to the orbits of each mission after the TLI burns?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection

Since you're so keen on mapping everything into 2D sketches, maybe you can ponder the rather nice diagram at the top right of this page, which clearly shows that the post-TLI flight path wasn't on the equatorial plane.  Perhaps it would be instructive to plot a similar diagram showing the relationship to the geomagnetic equator, and VAB...

[raven]

If the radiation in the ring is uniform in respect to radii then it matters not what azimuth you enter.  The only relevant factor would inclination.

Do you think the radiation is uniform? Yes or no. I appeal to LO that Tim answers this question. I want to ascertain his understanding of the VABs which I have asked about several times.

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

did you answer my question?  You first.

What do you think? Tell me what you know, is the radiation uniform?

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk

Do you not read my post?  I told you it is for a given radii.  Do you need a translator?

Even in the diagram one you 'brought clarity to' (a claim, by the way, which was absolute crock as shown by myself and others) Does that look uniform for a given radius outward to you? Because I would get your  eyes checked after your break if so.
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1444.0;attach=721;image

[Abaddon]

Well since tim is unable to grasp honesty, I shall attempt to bridge that gap. This very day I said I would post images with links and I did exactly that very thing.Tin ignored that as is usual. But in that effort I promised to  wheel out the photoshop, post and link said images on independant sites and then post links here. I did my part and tim did not.

Now In the middle of that, other things happened. My lappy died, for example. I know why that happened and it is comically stupid and I will happily fess up to it. The real problem is that TF is unable to understand what he does or does not know. Or how to tell the difference.

And for the terminally interested, I did the whole malarkey of plugging everything in and out before discovering that the wall socket was off.  Is that moronic? yes. There are a few points to be had right there.

Did I do something stupid? Sure. Turn the socket on you self evident twit.

Step up and own your errors. I seem to have also done that, I cocked that up. Mea ciupa.

Have self awareness. There is something fundamentally wrong with anyone who thinks they are perpetually right. Mostly those turn out to be the perpetual god botherers who terminally cannot figure out that other opinions exist