Faking Space: Auditing Apollo, A Photographic Investigation

[bknight]

“So the ball is in your court, you pick a subject and we'll be more than happy to discuss.  Your choice.”

Ok, I’ll choose the subject of Apollo, I’ve already started, so feel free to jump in.

  What specifically about Apollo?  You posted multiple comments, the idea was to stick to one subject.

“I'm a chemist, but I'm not sure how you "apply" Helium-3 to a rock sample in order for it to be absorbed into the molecular structure. Can you explicate how that's done?”

You claim to be a chemist, so obviously, the drawback to being a chemist is the inability to conduct simple research. Apparently it would be done with a particle accelerator, although it would only penetrate the first couple of millimetres. Thankfully however, there were plenty of meteorites around with Helium 3 already present, which were the ones that are alleged to have come from the moon.

“which NASA employees have homes in the Bahamas and drive Ferraris? An intrepid reporter could dig out that information in an afternoon.”

Why ask me? If you’re so interested, pick up the phone book and look under “I” for intrepid reporters.

“suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?”

Already addressed, read before you post.

“HBs always say that they want this one bit of evidence that they think doesn't exist, and the fact that they can't find it is somehow proof of the hoax”

This word proof seems to get mentioned a hell of a lot in this thread, even though I made it quite clear early on, to anyone with an attention span longer than a goldfish, that I don’t have proof, only circumstantial evidence. No I can’t find it and neither can you, so why shouldn’t I have the opinion that it may not exist. I believe a lot of stuff exists, that I haven’t seen with my own eyes. I’ve never seen a blue whale, but I believe they exist, but who knows, it’s just my opinion.

“I gave you the one piece of evidence you asked for, you seem determined not to respond”

Was it you that gave me a link, regarding the Apollo blueprints? If it was, then you must have posted the wrong link, as they weren’t there and nor could I find a link to them.

“The idea that cambo thinks all one needs is a filing cabinet is ludicrous.”

I thought it was a humorous thing to say at the time, but I now realise, humour and sarcasm isn’t something you people are familiar with.

“I see no point in engaging the cam bot. He hasn't said anything interesting, he doesn't know the subject, and his posts are too unfocused to try to reply to.”

Bye-bye.

Stick to one subject matter, Apollo is not really a subject, but many subjects, pick one, not ten.

[molesworth]

“The idea that cambo thinks all one needs is a filing cabinet is ludicrous.”

I thought it was a humorous thing to say at the time, but I now realise, humour and sarcasm isn’t something you people are familiar with.

Oh, we're very familiar with humour (and sarcasm).  If you'd spent more than 2 minutes looking through other threads on this forum, you'd have seen plenty of examples.

Unfortunately, people who believe in nonsensical hoax theories tend to be very depleted in the humour department, so it was natural to assume that you actually thought all of the Saturn V blueprints could be kept in a single filing cabinet.

And if you look at the top right of each post, you might notice a little button and the words "Insert Quote".  If you click that it'll put the post you're replying to in a quote box (as I've done above) which makes tracking posts and replies a lot easier...

[AtomicDog]

“which NASA employees have homes in the Bahamas and drive Ferraris? An intrepid reporter could dig out that information in an afternoon.”

Why ask me? If you’re so interested, pick up the phone book and look under “I” for intrepid reporters.

Way to miss the point. It is your contention that "NASA employees have homes in the Bahamas and drive Ferraris", presumably from their hoax payoffs. I'm just saying that if that was true, you could easily prove it. If you don't want to, that's your business. Just another one of your unevidenced contentions.


“suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?”

Already addressed, read before you post.

Liar. You've done no such thing.

And why do you need blueprints, anyway? There are unlaunched Saturn V rockets on display in Alabama and Florida. A Saturn V first stage engine was recovered from the Atlantic fairly recently. It seems to me that actual flight articles are as least as good a proof of something existing as their blueprints.

[Luke Pemberton]

I thought it was a humorous thing to say at the time, but I now realise, humour and sarcasm isn’t something you people are familiar with.

Ah bless, you know all about humour and sarcasm. That's lovely.

A horse walks into a bar, and the bar server says 'Hi, but what's with the long face?'

See we can do it too.

[Abaddon]

Is there an American on here that can send a FOIA request to the parties that hold the microfilm plans with Saturn-V plans?

Would be great to finally have those.

Depending on the cost, I am sure many of us are happy to divide the cost between us all.

No, such a mythical person or entity simply cannot possibly exist. Grumman have their blueprints, Lockheed have theirs, Boeing have theirs and so forth. It is an effort to track those down simply because they are diverse One can  track those down, sure. but there does not exist a central repository.  Each of the subcontractors is at liberty to retain such records or not as they see fit. They are private entities. Having acted as an auditor in a professional capacity, I can tell you for a fact. What you did in 1066 at the battle of Hastings is deeply uninteresting. I want to know what you do now.

You are making very little sense.

Anyways, wrong:

Paul Shawcross, from NASA's Office of Inspector General, came to the agency's defense in comments published on CCNet -- a scholarly electronic newsletter covering the threat of asteroids and comets. Shawcross said the Saturn 5 blueprints are held at the Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm.

"The Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia, also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents," he said. "Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F 1 and J 2 engine production to assist in any future restart."

So again, if an American could send a FOIA request to Marshall Space Flight Center that would be great.

Oh super, now you are contending that Grumman, Lockheed, Boeing et al do not have their own records. That is a very strange claim.

ETA: Read your own citation...

"Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program."

Rocketdyne has those, not NASA.

[apollo16uvc]

A few blueprints and detailed documents can be found here: https://archive.org/details/Apollo_blueprint_archive

[bknight]

A few blueprints and detailed documents can be found here: https://archive.org/details/Apollo_blueprint_archive

This can't be correct.  "Everyone" knows they have all been destroyed.

[gillianren]

I have a NASA T-shirt.  But I have two MST3K T-shirts, and I wouldn't die for them, either.

I really need to get a NASA T-shirt. I need something to go with my pyjamas, when drinking hot chocolate from my NASA mug, while sitting in my NASA slippers and NASA dressing gown (US version of the word please?), before tucking into bed with my NASA pillow cases and NASA quilt cover, in my NASA wallpapered bedroom and NASA nightlight. 

I do need a NASA T-shirt though.

"Bath robe."

I have the NASA T-shirt because it was $9 at a local department store at a time when I happened to have $9 in my budget.  As it happens, I do get money from the US government, and the program from which I get my money is one of the largest portions in the budget.  I get $700 a month.  That's not enough to make me stick to a lie about where I got that T-shirt, much less about my participation, or not, in one of the greatest triumphs of human history.

[apollo16uvc]

A few blueprints and detailed documents can be found here: https://archive.org/details/Apollo_blueprint_archive

This can't be correct.  "Everyone" knows they have all been destroyed.

Reality doesn't care about the opinion of some misinformed people.

I added a few more items today.
SEB12100030 comes from the NASA archives and it is the blueprint for the watchband.

[cambo]

I gave you the one piece of evidence you asked for, you seem determined not to respond.

It must be your fuzzy black and white photo you are referring to, which I did respond to on page 4. Don’t be embarrassed, as I suppose my posts so far may have been a bit of a headache to get through.

Even back then, they were able to accurately predict weather patterns a day in advance, maybe not so much on a local scale, but on a global scale, I would say they would be bang on. In my original response, the one that you overlooked, I asked you to show me your work. Can you do that, or is it hidden away somewhere on microfilm?

So obviously, your photo came from the above telecast, right? Well it seems like it’s possible that I could be wrong in my assumption that they couldn’t even get men into orbit back then, as at around 15:10 we see a depiction of the way the earth might have looked from LEO. But hang on! Two completely different interpretations of the alleged earth in the same telecast? It’s ok, I got it now, it was complete BS!

 I also found the flashlight trick amusing, it’s a pity they never spun one of those food bags in mid “air”, although it wouldn’t be as easy without the aid of CGI.

You started it:
Stick to one subject matter, Apollo is not really a subject, but many subjects, pick one, not ten

Actually the OP started it, but I can see where you’re coming from, but due to the mass of responses I’ve received, I feel obliged to respond, because if I don’t, I might be accused of dodging the issues, that have developed since the thread started. You are free to pick one of your own, and I will happily respond to you, but you are not the only one here, seeking to shoot me down.

Unfortunately, people who believe in nonsensical hoax theories tend to be very depleted in the humour department

Not true, we fall about laughing at some of the statements and evidence put forward by Apollo believers.

It is your contention that "NASA employees have homes in the Bahamas and drive Ferraris

You said that, not me. What you assume you would do with all that money, doesn’t mean the rest of the people on the planet would spend it the same way.

suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?

 Already addressed, read before you post.

Liar. You've done no such thing

I did it twice on page 4, go back and look.

There are unlaunched Saturn V rockets on display in Alabama and Florida

That is the bit that did work, to some extent anyway.

A Saturn V first stage engine was recovered from the Atlantic fairly recently

Pity they couldn’t be arsed looking for the rest of it, because that where it’ll be.

A horse walks into a bar, and the bar server says 'Hi, but what's with the long face?

No, that’s just repeating an old joke, which doesn’t require any spontaneous wit whatsoever.

A few blueprints and detailed documents can be found here: https://archive.org/details/Apollo_blueprint_archive

Those are diagrams, here’s some of the U.S.S. Enterprise, but before you all start wetting yourselves with excitement, it’s just pretend.

 https://www.pinterest.com/pin/464996730253770078/

I added a few more items today.
SEB12100030 comes from the NASA archives and it is the blueprint for the watchband

A fully functional watchband? Don’t be so absurd!

[AtomicDog]

It is your contention that "NASA employees have homes in the Bahamas and drive Ferraris"

You said that, not me. What you assume you would do with all that money, doesn’t mean the rest of the people on the planet would spend it the same way.

My mistake. You didn't say it, you  just agreed with it:

“And where, pray tell, has all this "extorted" tax money gone?  How many NASA employees have holiday homes in the Bahamas, and drive Ferraris?”

Only the ones that were in on it.

Since you agree with the statement, you own it.

suppose I took the several tractor-trailer loads of hardcopy Apollo blueprints and dropped them in front of your abode for your perusal. What could you, with your superior aerospace knowledge, glean from them?

Already addressed, read before you post.

Liar. You've done no such thing.

I did it twice on page 4, go back and look.

You mean this?

I want to see those plans which are allegedly hidden away on microfilm and allegedly available to engineers and researchers for scrutiny. Where are the testimonies from these engineers saying “yep, that’d work”

I see nothing in that statement that speaks to your ability to interpret blueprints. Try again.


Or this?

As I’ve already stated, although I wouldn’t mind seeing them (the plans) for myself, it’s genuine signed testimonies from today’s engineers in the field to say that those contraptions would do the jobs that were allegedly achieved, that would swing it.

I asked for evidence of your ability to interpret blueprints, not for your accepting the word of "today's engineers". You've already discounted the word of every qualified aerospace scientist, technician and engineer on earth; I don't believe for one moment that you would accept signed testimony from anyone.

A Saturn V first stage engine was recovered from the Atlantic fairly recently

Pity they couldn’t be arsed looking for the rest of it, because that where it’ll be.

So how many engines would satisfy you? Why do you need more than one as evidence?

[molesworth]

I'll leave OBM to deal with the dismissal of the weather satellite imagery, but...

I also found the flashlight trick amusing, it’s a pity they never spun one of those food bags in mid “air”, although it wouldn’t be as easy without the aid of CGI.

Exactly what was the state of the art in CGI in 1969?  Is this why you think a vacuum chamber wouldn't be needed to create realistic effects - because they could do it all with CGI in post?  Sheesh...

[molesworth]

My mistake. You didn't say it, you  just agreed with it:

“And where, pray tell, has all this "extorted" tax money gone?  How many NASA employees have holiday homes in the Bahamas, and drive Ferraris?”

Only the ones that were in on it.

Yeah, sorry, I should have owned that one earlier.  It was intended to point out the stupidity of the idea that the whole Apollo / NASA / fake science thing is just a way to "extort" tax money for their own benefit.  (I don't think Cambo actually understands the meaning of the word "extort", but that's another discussion.)

Since you agree with the statement, you own it.

Agreed.  I'd like some sort of justification for the ridiculous claims as well.

[Luke Pemberton]

A horse walks into a bar, and the bar server says 'Hi, but what's with the long face?

No, that’s just repeating an old joke, which doesn’t require any spontaneous wit whatsoever.

Good evening mystery time traveller from 16^th century Spain. You said that a sense of humour and sarcasm was wasted on us, not that we did not demonstrate spontaneous wit. That's just changing the goal posts now isn't it?

I draw your attention to my remark that I made about Jarrah, namely he could not find the little ladder to debunk himself each morning to eat his coco pops, let alone debunk anyone else. I felt that was quite spontaneous.

[Geordie]

(A reply to an old post; apologies for any lack of current relevance.)

“surely you can't mean that nothing should be tried by humans until it's been previously tried by humans?”

Of course not, monkey then humans.

Just like the Vikings sent monkeys off in longboats to see if it was possible to sail a small boat from Iceland to Vinland. Yeah. They waited for those monkeys to return with the good news.

(I can't remember how they acquired monkeys in first millennia Iceland, maybe someone else here knows.)

Believe it or not, I am willing to consider any solid proof you may think you have, and if I don’t think it’s proof, I will explain why. The closest I have come, if I remember correctly is the data from Jodrell Bank concerning Apollo 11’s approach to the moon couldn’t be faked for whatever reason, but then I wondered why they never tracked it on the journey to and from the moon. Then I found out that the only tracking facilities claiming to have done this, were ran by NASA at the time. Even Russia only locked on to their radio frequencies after they allegedly reached the moon. Has anyone got anything else? Wouldn’t it be amazing if one of you could convert a hardened HB?

Dig this, if you haven't already:
http://www.arrl.org/eavesdropping-on-apollo-11

It's fascinating. The ham is still around. He still has his original recordings. The local newspaper reporter, who witnessed the recordings being made, is still around. The original newspapers if not in the morgue are in the microfilm collections of various regional libraries.