Faking the moon landings

[cambo]

The Aulis site makes a hell of a lot more sense than NASA’s garbage...

His site "makes sense" only if the reader doesn't know much about how space works.....

How do you know how space works? You have no first-hand experience of what it’s like up there, which is the main point of my argument. We only have knowledge of what we are taught, and until you have personal experience of what you’ve been taught, then you can’t say you know. It would be like when you believed in Santa Claus as a child, but until you’ve been up in that sleigh, all you have is faith, not knowledge.

Relative to the world’s population, there is only a microscopic group of people who can say they allegedly have experience of how space works. Forget the people on the ground constructing rockets, satellites, Mars landers and the likes, and also the people looking at screens, and don’t forget all those geologists. These people have been given the equivalent of seeing their dad in a Santa suit. It must be real because I helped build it! And I monitored its progress on my computer screen! Hey that’s nothing, I seen a rock!!!

The alleged astronauts and the people involved in the video and photographic fakery will know it’s all a big fraud, but they don’t understand how space works. My guess is, the Russians, and then the US, realised early on that they couldn’t send people out into space and bring them back alive, so whether it’s because they can’t survive re-entry or whether it be radiation, or those rockets just didn’t have the oomph to carry all that weight into space, I’m just not sure, but I’ll put money on it being at least one of those factors, plus a few others. Who knows, maybe rockets really don’t work in space. Or maybe it’s the dome.

A small elite group will have some idea how it works, but it’s not the story we’re being told. It’s beginning to look like they’ll never work it out, as it’s been well over half a century since they started trying, and still no joy. What the hell’s wrong with you people? Stanley Kubrick and his special effects man, Douglas Trumbull, did a half decent job of fooling the public back in the day, but how on “earth” is it possible that some people still refuse to see through the lies?

If you want to push the idea that they went, then that’s just fine, but at least admit the video footage is fake, as you aren’t doing yourselves any favours by being stubborn. You are fighting a losing battle and if they ever pluck up the courage to fake it again, it’ll be the video footage, once again which lets them down, as although NASA have all the necessary facilities to produce blockbuster movies, they’re just not very good at it.

.....I started out as a believer, but unlike you I was willing to listen to arguments from both sides...

No, you believe in Apollo hoaxes because you very much want to, and you're fighting tooth and nail to defend that belief.....

No one “wants” to believe that our governments are controlling us with their evil lies and deceit, and it would be absurd to think anyone would want to believe that a government would deliberately slaughter thousands of its own citizens in order to have an excuse to start a war, but I believe it to be true because the evidence strongly suggests it to be true. It is you who is fighting to defend a belief that is merely based on your misplaced trust in the people that govern you.

You haven't shown any evidence that you've sifted through the mountain of evidence.  You seem to have steeped yourself only in the cherry-picked bits interpreted by people with no knowledge of what they're looking at and considerable interested in getting money from you.  How does that qualify as a well-rounded experience?

Of course I’m cherry-picking, as I’m picking out what I feel is the strongest evidence, which proves we are being lied to. On top of this, there is also a large amount of circumstantial evidence, which adds further weight to the allegations. The money earned by the people making these videos is nothing compared to the trillions extorted from the tax payers, but the difference is, we have a choice to whether or not we line the pockets of those filmmaker’s. I for one, haven’t gave a single penny to these charlatans as you call them, although you may find it ironic that I’ve purchased several official Apollo DVD’s over the past few months.

...as we are in the majority...

What facts demonstrate that the majority of people believe that Apollo missions were hoaxes?

I’ve discussed this subject with many of my work colleagues and friends over recent years, and when I tell them that it never happened, the majority say of course it did. When I ask them how they know, the answer I always get is, because it did. On the other hand, the handful of people who agree with me will give me a list of reasons why they don’t believe.

How many people do you think have actually looked at the evidence, rather than just being told that it happened and leaving it at that? Around twenty to thirty percent of the public don’t believe we went to the moon and the vast majority of the other 70% probably just don’t give a crap, as they have lives to live and don’t have time for conspiracies, and although this isn’t a fact, I feel it is a fair assumption, due to my personal experience.

There are only a very small group of people, which includes you, who take the time to fight tooth and nail to uphold this fantasy that we are capable of manned space flight, and as time goes on, that 30% of nonbelievers will grow, while your numbers will at best, stay as they are. Don’t forget to order your Apollo 50yrs commemorative coin and other memorabilia which I’m sure will be money well spent.

https://sputniknews.com/science/201807271066736384-russians-polled-on-moon-landings/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/moon-landing-celebrates-47th-anniversary-8446862

Have a nice Christmas, get your hankies ready!

 
 

[onebigmonkey]

This is incredulity of the highest order, as there is a mountain of evidence staring you in the face, but you put your fingers in your ears and look the other way. This has to be a form of mental illness you are all suffering from, as your way of thinking is completely alien to any rational thinking person. Try and imagine your emotions if the government and NASA were to come clean and admit the fraud. The very thought should terrify you, but I’m guessing that your brains are not wired for imaginative thinking.

My irony meter just broke.

[onebigmonkey]

How many people do you think have actually looked at the evidence, rather than just being told that it happened and leaving it at that? Around twenty to thirty percent of the public don’t believe we went to the moon and the vast majority of the other 70% probably just don’t give a crap, as they have lives to live and don’t have time for conspiracies, and although this isn’t a fact, I feel it is a fair assumption, due to my personal experience.

Doesn't matter how many have actually looked. What actually matters is whether the evidence they look at is correct or not. The Apollo evidence is correct and stands up to every scrutiny thinking people can give it. You assumptions are just that and have no basis in fact.

There are only a very small group of people, which includes you, who take the time to fight tooth and nail to uphold this fantasy that we are capable of manned space flight, and as time goes on, that 30% of nonbelievers will grow, while your numbers will at best, stay as they are.

And?

A lot of people actually involved in manned space flight really, really, don't give a rat's ass for the morons out there who don't believe in it. The baseless, ill-informed opinions of cretins are an irrelevance to them, and it doesn't matter how many of them there are, it doesn't make them correct.

[nomuse]

How do you know how space works? You have no first-hand experience of what it’s like up there, which is the main point of my argument. We only have knowledge of what we are taught, and until you have personal experience of what you’ve been taught, then you can’t say you know. It would be like when you believed in Santa Claus as a child, but until you’ve been up in that sleigh, all you have is faith, not knowledge.

And it's still a stupid argument.

There is no bright line. All the sciences are connected. The same underlying principles are shared across specialities. The same physics operates regardless of where you are; the difference is in which factors come to the front.

I worked briefly at an industrial vacuum deposition shop. We had a vacuum, our tools were in that vacuum, the processes we were doing to make products for our customers happened in that vacuum. Now here you are, saying that if we made that vacuum just slightly harder it would change all the rules. It would suddenly turn into Magical Space Vacuum about which no human can ever be allowed to understand.

Balderdash.

[JayUtah]

why some people believe that governments and large organisations such as NASA would be incapable of lying.

Nobody claims they are incapable of lying.  They merely didn't, and can prove they didn't.

Wind forward to recent years and the heads of every so called space agency in the world know that Apollo was a hoax...

Maybe in some alternate universe.

First of all, we are talking a multibillion dollar organisation, not some two-bit “live” stage production.

You don't know who Foy is, do you?  Also, the theater I work in is a $65 million performing arts facility, not some "two-bit" stage.  Our automation contractor is the same one Cirque du Soleil uses.

There are people with better qualifications than you, who have fell foul to NASA’s lies. The qualifications you are so proud of are the very thing preventing you from viewing the evidence with an open mind.

Right.  The guy who does all this stuff for a living is somehow "blinded" to the evidence.  I notice you didn't answer what your qualifications were.  I assume you don't have any.

Sibrel was wrong...

Have you actually seen the footage aside from what Sibrel shows you?

...the fact that the bulk of the footage was never officially released to the public until after Sibrel released his DVD is very suspicious to say the least.

It was all released on VHS long before Sibrel's voice changed.  You may not have seen it, but that's your problem.

Made with no evidence? What do you hope to gain by being dishonest? You may have some respect among your fellow cult members, but most people outside of your little club see you as a deceitful character who will distort the truth and make false accusations toward your opponents in an attempt to discredit them.

If you say so.

I’m guessing that your brains are not wired for imaginative thinking.

Yes, you're obviously so much the better thinker.

[JayUtah]

How do you know how space works?

Because it's what I do for a living.

If you want to push the idea that they went, then that’s just fine, but at least admit the video footage is fake, as you aren’t doing yourselves any favours by being stubborn. You are fighting a losing battle...

If you say so.

No one “wants” to believe that our governments are controlling us with their evil lies and deceit...

You do, because what else would you have to rail against?  How else would you be the "hero" who can somehow see through all these layers of deception?

I’ve discussed this subject with many of my work colleagues...

So that's your idea of a "majority?"  Your personal circle?

How many people do you think have actually looked at the evidence, rather than just being told that it happened and leaving it at that?

Everyone in my industry.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[JayUtah]

My irony meter just broke.

Indeed.  He really has no toehold in reality.

[MBDK]

It’s not a case of me being puzzled by the world, but rather, my perception of the world is merely different to what you perceive it to be.

That would be due to the fact that I am mentally stable.

What does puzzle me however is why some people believe that governments and large organisations such as NASA would be incapable of lying.

Since you seem to be puzzled by every physical law of the universe, this is not a revelation.  Your critically disabled critical thinking skills can't seem to grasp the glaring difference between capability and performance.  Just because someone CAN lie does not mean they did, or have done it in a specific instance.  EVERYONE is capable of lying (you know, just like you did when you claimed there were only two possibilities for the observation of the dust movement in the "jump salute").  One needs to examine each point individually to judge its accuracy.  However, I am certain you know this and are just trolling, because your tactic of saturation dumping is merely a lame attempt to obfuscate any discussion.

[gillianren]

why some people believe that governments and large organisations such as NASA would be incapable of lying.

Nobody claims they are incapable of lying.  They merely didn't, and can prove they didn't.

What we are specifically claiming is that they are incapable of keeping a lie secret, which is a very different claim.

I’m guessing that your brains are not wired for imaginative thinking.

Yes, you're obviously so much the better thinker.

Not to mention that some of us are involved in the creative arts!

It’s not a case of me being puzzled by the world, but rather, my perception of the world is merely different to what you perceive it to be.

That would be due to the fact that I am mentally stable.

Be careful--I'm not, remember, and neither are several other members.  What matters is not a binary stable/unstable.  What matters is an ability to view evidence objectively.  Plenty of unstable people are perfectly capable of doing that, and many are capable of doing that provided the evidence isn't a focus of their instability.  I have a friend whose schizophrenic aunt is paranoid about the Klan, and there are a lot of factors where her thinking is not reasonable.  But she's still capable of being rational about some things that aren't touched by her illness.

[MBDK]

That would be due to the fact that I am mentally stable.

Be careful--I'm not, remember, and neither are several other members.  What matters is not a binary stable/unstable.  What matters is an ability to view evidence objectively.  Plenty of unstable people are perfectly capable of doing that, and many are capable of doing that provided the evidence isn't a focus of their instability.  I have a friend whose schizophrenic aunt is paranoid about the Klan, and there are a lot of factors where her thinking is not reasonable.  But she's still capable of being rational about some things that aren't touched by her illness.

Understood, and I apologize for any insult you may have perceived.  We all have our problems and unrecognized prejudices, but I would like to point out that Cambo may be the best in the world at rationalizing things, such as say, the intricacies of precision Swiss watches, but Cambo either has a similar problem (like your dear friend) with regards to physics/NASA/governments, or is a deliberate troll, who's mental justifications are of a serious concern. 

Regardless, I will try to refrain from such innuendos in future, and wish you and yours, and EVERYBODY on this forum (even you, too Cambo) a VERY Merry Christmas, and a happy and fruitful New Year!

Note: Edited to clarify the comparison of gillianren's friend's situation to Cambo's.

[Peter B]

It’s not a case of me being puzzled by the world, but rather, my perception of the world is merely different to what you perceive it to be...

So you'd call yourself a stable genius?

Wind forward to recent years and the heads of every so called space agency in the world know that Apollo was a hoax, along with all other alleged manned space flight, as they are all in on the act.

What, even the North Koreans and Cubans are willing to go along with this, despite their lack of love for the USA?

There are people with better qualifications than you, who have fell foul to NASA’s lies. The qualifications you are so proud of are the very thing preventing you from viewing the evidence with an open mind.

So what are the qualifications needed to tell whether a rocket launched from a space port somewhere is actually in space?

Knowledge is power, but that doesn’t apply to you, as the people running the world have the real knowledge, which gives them the power to control the rest of us, by giving us a false knowledge, which in turn, gives us a false understanding of the world we live in. Therefore, the less knowledge we have, to a certain extent, the more open our minds are, and since I have less of this alleged scientific knowledge than you, it gives me power over the likes of you, as I am free to think outside the box, in which, you will be forever locked inside.

How about the less you know about a subject, the easier it is to be mistaken about it.

Incidentally, does this world-view of yours apply to earth-bound science and technology? Do you, for example distrust a construction engineer who makes a pronouncement about the safety or otherwise of a bridge, and prefer instead the prognostications of an open-minded non-engineer? (I'm thinking, for example, of the Ponte Morandi in Genoa, which partially collapsed in August this year.)

Likewise, do you apply this maxim to what experts tell you about yourself and your...stuff? Do you, for example, dismiss as "false understanding" what your mechanic says about your car when your best mate can wave a crystal over it and say it's fine?

...we never see the alleged astronauts speaking, because to have live audio would mean hearing the planes engines...

If you're going to insist on that being a problem, how is it that amplified music doesn't immediately cause feedback?

Try and imagine your emotions if the government and NASA were to come clean and admit the fraud.

I've done better than that. I've written a short story in which faking the Moon landings is the central plot point.

The very thought should terrify you, but I’m guessing that your brains are not wired for imaginative thinking.

Heh. I'm a parent. My imaginative thinking about the possible consequences of my kids' current activities leaves me in a constant state of terror.

[Peter B]

How do you know how space works? You have no first-hand experience of what it’s like up there, which is the main point of my argument. We only have knowledge of what we are taught, and until you have personal experience of what you’ve been taught, then you can’t say you know. It would be like when you believed in Santa Claus as a child, but until you’ve been up in that sleigh, all you have is faith, not knowledge.

Well, let's take an alternative sample...

Do you believe anything you haven't had a "personal experience" of? If you do, what do you say is acceptable evidence to accept the reality of something you can't personally experience?

Is Bulgaria real? What about something historical like, say, the Column of Phocas in Rome? Does Saturn have rings? How many moons does Jupiter have? Is Neptune real?

Relative to the world’s population, there is only a microscopic group of people who can say they allegedly have experience of how space works. Forget the people on the ground constructing rockets, satellites, Mars landers and the likes, and also the people looking at screens, and don’t forget all those geologists. These people have been given the equivalent of seeing their dad in a Santa suit. It must be real because I helped build it! And I monitored its progress on my computer screen! Hey that’s nothing, I seen a rock!!!

Okay, so what about the launch of a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket? People can go to Cape Canaveral and film the lift-off, and with their cameras can track the first stage up into space, and then a few minutes later watch a slightly singed rocket land by the pad. They can have beside them a screen showing live shots from the top of the first stage looking down, with views which exactly match the trajectory of the rocket they're watching. Or are those people fake too?

My guess is, the Russians, and then the US, realised early on that they couldn’t send people out into space and bring them back alive, so whether it’s because they can’t survive re-entry or whether it be radiation, or those rockets just didn’t have the oomph to carry all that weight into space, I’m just not sure, but I’ll put money on it being at least one of those factors, plus a few others. Who knows, maybe rockets really don’t work in space. Or maybe it’s the dome.

So this is what it comes down to: you think rockets can't take people into space, but you don't what it is that makes it impossible. And the only evidence you have in your favour is a couple of videos you think don't look right.

Roger that.

Just out of interest, I know I've asked this before, but I don't think you've ever bothered to reply: what unmanned space missions do you believe are real? Voyagers 1 and 2? Galileo and Cassini? Far Horizons? Sojourner, Spirit, Opportunity and Curiosity on Mars? The Indian Mars orbiter? The Chinese lunar rover? Communications satellites in geosynchronous orbit? Satellites in low-Earth orbit? V-2s?

Of course I’m cherry-picking...

The problem with cherry-picking the evidence is that the bits you leave out may completely change the meaning of what is said...

...I...earned...trillions...from the tax payers...for one...official Apollo DVD...over the past few months.

 

[cambo]

There's a lot more than just the visual record (by which I assume you mean the photos, film and video), although you seem determined to dismiss all of it without any real analysis.  The fact that such an extensive and detailed record exists can't easily be ignored, especially when it's not just "NASA" providing us with evidence.  A huge array of information, from people all over the world, in many different disciplines, both from the time of the missions, and in subsequent analysis, supports the case that Apollo happened.

What do you mean when you say “an extensive and detailed record”? Are you talking about things such as the original video tapes from Apollo 11 and all that telemetry data from the missions? And surely the old technology that enabled them to achieve such an incredible feat, must also be well documented? Or are you merely referring to the written account of events?

Could you be more specific about this huge array of evidence from people all over the world, from the time of the missions, that would support the idea that NASA were successful in sending men to the moon and back nine times in under four years, without a single casualty.

The video record is the only true source of evidence, as it was the hardest thing to fake, and boy did they mess up. Including video footage of the events was a big mistake, and they’ve since learned their lesson, as even the latest fake mars mission doesn’t include video footage.

[JayUtah]

And surely the old technology that enabled them to achieve such an incredible feat, must also be well documented?

Yes.

The video record is the only true source of evidence...

No.

[bknight]

…

The video record is the only true source of evidence, as it was the hardest thing to fake, and boy did they mess up. /quote]

No it isn't. Telemetry, experiments left on the Moon, Moon rock returned to give you some example

Including video footage of the events was a big mistake,

Could you be specific concerning video mistakes?