Faking the moon landings

[JayUtah]

Eight months for a reply?.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[bknight]

Oh I agree with the troll comment describing cambo.

[bknight]

<snip BS>

I think you’ll find that I’m only one among millions of people who would find it absurd that the plans to build a working Rover, LM and Saturn V rocket are nowhere to be found, along with the tools used to build them.
 Oh but wait, you and millions of others have seen live TV footage which is proof of their authenticity. Pardon me for being such a naive fool.[/quote]
Where are these millions?  Could you provide a link to where these millions might be?
All of which you think are nowhere to be found are indeed available, but not for free.  You just have to look instead of believing that a hoax has been perpetrated.

<snip more BS>

Where are you facts t prove your case?  You don't have any because the facts point to exactly contradicting your beliefs. 

[gillianren]

I have pretty much never yet had a conversation outside the confines of this forum about hoax belief that didn't involve someone asking if people were really foolish enough to believe it.  So you know.

As to being sworn to secrecy, to me it would be a greater shame to swear to protect a lie than to break a confidentiality agreement.

[onebigmonkey]

if I find evidence which proves me right

You have yet to provide this.

[jfb]

You fail to understand a simple concept, one person, just one, that knows will inevitably tell another

Not if they’ve signed a contract.

What contract?

Can you even begin to imagine what it would be like to be sworn to secrecy by your government, because I certainly can?

I don't have to imagine it.  I filled out the SF86, went through the background checks, got the periodic briefings that reminded me exactly how screwed I would be if I just lost something, etc.  And even though I haven't had a clearance in almost a decade, I'm still bound by that.  There's stuff I worked on almost 30 years ago that I still can't talk about, and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty boring.

Yet, leaks still happen, and a few leakers manage to not get caught (at least not until after the damage has been done).  Hell, had Greenwald not screwed him over, Snowden wouldn't be living in Russia today.

The responsibility must be enormous, and what about the people who refuse to sign it?

Refuse to sign what?  What the hell are you talking about?

I would imagine they would be in the same situation, only a lot poorer. To blab would be an act of treason in the eyes of their government, and they, and I suspect their families would pay the price.

The X Files was not a documentary.

[Jason Thompson]

Can you even begin to imagine what it would be like to be sworn to secrecy by your government, because I certainly can?

I don't have to imagine it.  I filled out the SF86, went through the background checks, got the periodic briefings that reminded me exactly how screwed I would be if I just lost something, etc.  And even though I haven't had a clearance in almost a decade, I'm still bound by that.  There's stuff I worked on almost 30 years ago that I still can't talk about, and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty boring.

This always bemuses me when it comes to conspiracy theorists. They can imagine all sorts of things. They can imagine a shady world of secrets and retribution. They can imagine crazy machines that have to exist to explain things in ways that don't involve the actual published versions of events. They can imagine people willing to go to any lengths to fool the world. And yet, their imagination utterly fails to cover the idea that people they talk to might actually know how some of these hypothetical things really work through personal experience....

[onebigmonkey]

Can you even begin to imagine what it would be like to be sworn to secrecy by your government, because I certainly can?

I don't have to imagine it.  I filled out the SF86, went through the background checks, got the periodic briefings that reminded me exactly how screwed I would be if I just lost something, etc.  And even though I haven't had a clearance in almost a decade, I'm still bound by that.  There's stuff I worked on almost 30 years ago that I still can't talk about, and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty boring.

This always bemuses me when it comes to conspiracy theorists. They can imagine all sorts of things. They can imagine a shady world of secrets and retribution. They can imagine crazy machines that have to exist to explain things in ways that don't involve the actual published versions of events. They can imagine people willing to go to any lengths to fool the world. And yet, their imagination utterly fails to cover the idea that people they talk to might actually know how some of these hypothetical things really work through personal experience....

But of course, what on Earth could anybody in the real world know that would outshine the in depth knowledge of someone who has learned how to use Google selectively.

[JayUtah]

But of course, what on Earth could anybody in the real world know that would outshine the in depth knowledge of someone who has learned how to use Google selectively.

I'm not even sure at this point that he's Googling with any degree of sincerity.  He seems to have all but stopped responding meaningfully to other posts and seems more excited about pushing emotional buttons just to elicit responses.  Classic troll behavior.

[jfb]

But of course, what on Earth could anybody in the real world know that would outshine the in depth knowledge of someone who has learned how to use Google selectively.

I'm not even sure at this point that he's Googling with any degree of sincerity.  He seems to have all but stopped responding meaningfully to other posts and seems more excited about pushing emotional buttons just to elicit responses.  Classic troll behavior.

He's outright admitted he was trolling on at least one occasion.  But, sometimes, it's either deal with him or, you know, work.   

Annoying as he is, he's less annoying than having to migrate a legacy C++ codebase to AWS. 

[JayUtah]

He's outright admitted he was trolling on at least one occasion.

Hence why I respond only when it seems likely that a stumbler upon our forum might be misled by something he's said.  For the most part he's bringing up topics that have been well addressed in the past.

Annoying as he is, he's less annoying than having to migrate a legacy C++ codebase to AWS.

Depends on the exact flavor of legacy.  My software team uses AWS for software QA, but that's about it.  Their biggest hurdle in recent memory was shifting from Pathscale to LLVM and to the 2014 C++ standard from [whatever it was they were using back in 2004].  These are guys for whom hand-packed assembly is barely fast enough to make them happy, so it's about on the same annoyance level as unimaginative trolls.

[cambo]

You have made no effort to account for meteorological fingerprints in Apollo images other than jerk your knee, and have made no effort at all to prove that the satellite record does not match the Apollo imagery.

No one is disputing the claim that the images from Apollo match the alleged satellite images. What is in dispute is the claim that the matching images prove the authenticity of the Apollo moon missions.

Unless you can prove beyond any doubt that the anomalies in those alleged transmissions, which I and others say point to fakery, are in fact as they should be, then all that painstaking research of yours was for nothing. Even the evidence of rotation that you yourself put forward, shows it to be fake. Every time you present evidence, you dig yourself a deeper hole.

I remember you stating that some of the satellite images came from non NASA sources, but the closest one I could find was the ESSA-9 satellite. The ESSA satellites were reportedly launched by NASA, who also allegedly had a hand in their development. Can you even prove those satellites were up there?

We started using balloons to track weather conditions back in the 1930’s, and we currently release around 650,000 weather balloons every year from nearly 900 locations around the world, two a day from each location, which give us accurate real time weather models, and is still the prime source for weather prediction, along with weather radar, the development of which was started soon after WWII, so why the need for satellites? If I want to know about climate change, I may consider asking a satellite, if I can find one.

You are obviously extremely proud of yourself for digging up this evidence, but are you really so conceited that you think you’ve discovered something that the people at NASA had overlooked, when in reality, that evidence, along with any other contrived evidence they could muster up, would be leaked into the media as soon as they got wind of those poor aircraft pilots being grilled and humiliated by Sibrel? How could any employer sit back and watch the appalling treatment these national heroes were subjected to and not lift a finger in their defence? 

NASA don’t officially answer to the hoax claims, but there’s been countless interviews with NASA employees, including those celebrity astronauts, from Neil Armstrong & Co to our present day protagonists, such as Chris Hadfield, Donald Pettit and the likes, but not one of them have ever brought up this evidence, which you seem to think, irrefutably proves they achieved this extraordinary feat. Could it simply be that they’d rather not draw any further attention to this embarrassing footage?

[ApolloEnthusiast]

NASA don’t officially answer to the hoax claims, but there’s been countless interviews with NASA employees, including those celebrity astronauts, from Neil Armstrong & Co to our present day protagonists, such as Chris Hadfield, Donald Pettit and the likes, but not one of them have ever brought up this evidence, which you seem to think, irrefutably proves they achieved this extraordinary feat. Could it simply be that they’d rather not draw any further attention to this embarrassing footage?

It's more likely that they understand that, for people who do that job for a living, even having the ridiculous conversation can make it seem credible to the ignorant.  Better to just talk about it intelligently with intelligent people.

While a site like this, especially with so many highly qualified people, may unfortunately do the same thing to some degree, I do think it's good to have a place where people with legitimate questions can see the extreme imbalance in the weight of the evidence and arguments.  Meanwhile, the serious hoax nuts are basically irredeemable anyway, so it's not like encouraging them actually has any effect on the ability to educate them.

It's just sad that you don't recognize that when NASA officials and astronauts aren't debating you, it's not because your argument is too strong.  It's because the argument isn't even strong enough to warrant a seat at the table.   

[JayUtah]

Could it simply be that they’d rather not draw any further attention to this embarrassing footage?

No.  It's because they don't take hoax claims seriously.  As ignorant and poorly-supported as those claims are, they are behaving appropriately.

[smartcooky]

It's just sad that you don't recognize that when NASA officials and astronauts aren't debating you, it's not because your argument is too strong.  It's because the argument isn't even strong enough to warrant a seat at the table.

THIS!

...there's a notion that everyone's opinion is valid, My arse! A bloke who's a professor of dentistry for 40 years does not have to debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door"
- Dara O'Brain