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Author Topic: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !  (Read 10165 times)

Offline EngineerSteve

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Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« on: August 30, 2018, 12:25:03 AM »
 I had been hearing about a Moon-rock that was "presented" to Holland, but used as proof we didn't go to the moon because it was Fake (petrified).
I just found this excellent piece of research on it.  I commented to the OPs to contact you, but here is the link to his answer on the Quora Q&A site:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-we-give-holland-a-fake-moon-rock/answer/Del-de-la-Haye

Here is another comment under another answer to the question with information from another researcher:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-we-give-holland-a-fake-moon-rock/answer/Eric-Schwertfeger/comment/71671763

« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 12:42:59 AM by EngineerSteve »
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Offline raven

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 01:15:28 AM »
Yeah, I've known about most of the details about this for awhile. Why would NASA would even use a piece of petrified wood as a fake moon rock?  Sure, an art museum didn't catch it, but any geologist would once they got a close look at it, and, indeed, they did just that!
Conspiracy theorist's 'evidence' tends to break down once you get a chance to think about it, but, with this, you barely even have to rub two neurons together for it fall apart.
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Offline Bop

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 01:19:31 AM »
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Offline Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 01:35:44 AM »
The country is called the Netherlands.
Dagnabit!
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Offline ineluki

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 05:27:06 AM »
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Offline bknight

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 07:56:40 AM »
Yes Phil Webb produced a couple of youTube videos back in 2010 debunking this nonsense.




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Offline BDL

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 11:32:07 PM »
It wouldn’t make much sense for either the astronauts or NASA to give anyone fake moon rocks. Surely they’d know that the moon rocks would be tested by competent geologists. Thus, it would be better and easier not to hand out any moon rocks at all assuming it was a hoax. The “hoax” version of the story doesn’t really make much sense when you think about it.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 11:47:07 PM by BDL »
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 12:27:25 AM »
Some hoaxies come up with stuff that you do have to think about and explain to debunk (non-parallel shadows, no stars etc). This isn't one of them. Anyone with a 3rd Grade or better education can debunk this right off the bat.

When was the last time a hoaxie brought anything new to the table? All we ever seem to get now is regurgitated rubbish that has been repeatedly debunked for the last 40-50 years.
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Offline Rob48

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 07:41:08 AM »
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Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 08:12:47 AM »
Quote from: Rob48 on August 31, 2018, 07:41:08 AM
Quote
The story has a few flaws. Mainly, no moon rocks were given to the US States or countires until 1970,

Not quite true; when I looked into this a few years ago I found that the first Goodwill lunar rock sample was presented on December 31, 1969, by Spiro Agnew to Ferdinand Marcos, in the Philippines.

See: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-dec-16-2011-president-ferdinand-e-marcos-receives-from-us-vice-president-69509452.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=7033488A-22D4-4949-B74B-554E1273B36A&p=90011&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dvice%2520president%2520spiro%2520agnew%26qt_raw%3dvice%2520president%2520spiro%2520agnew%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0

Is that a Goodwill rock or an exhibition rock?

https://www.stripes.com/blogs-archive/archive-photo-of-the-day/archive-photo-of-the-day-1.9717/moon-rock-on-display-in-the-philippines-1970-1.274712#.W4kuRuj0mM8

The case it's in suggests the latter? Certainly other rocks of the size were also doing the rounds as museum exhibits - Holland had their own in late January 1970.



And here's the one that visited Prague:



They all look as though they would fit inside that box Geno's handing over :)

Moot point anyway - the Goodwill gifts were commissioned in November 1969, and at the time of the tour the lunar samples ahd only just been released to the scientific community.
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Offline MartinC

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2018, 01:14:47 PM »
A discussion around the Lunar samples with a HB usually reveals how completely dishonest they can be - a fake moon rock of unknown origin apparently means all Apollo (and Luna) samples are also fake.

I do have a further question though. If we compare the Apollo 17 sample collection with those from earlier missions is there a noticeable difference in "quality". By that I mean did the presence of a professional geologist on the lunar surface result in improved sample selection? I would have assumed it did but when looking through available post mission analysis reports I haven't seen anything which comments upon this. The answer is likely self evident to any planetary scientist but as a layperson I thought I'd ask.  :)
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Offline bknight

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 10:49:49 PM »
Quote from: MartinC on September 14, 2018, 01:14:47 PM
A discussion around the Lunar samples with a HB usually reveals how completely dishonest they can be - a fake moon rock of unknown origin apparently means all Apollo (and Luna) samples are also fake.

I do have a further question though. If we compare the Apollo 17 sample collection with those from earlier missions is there a noticeable difference in "quality". By that I mean did the presence of a professional geologist on the lunar surface result in improved sample selection? I would have assumed it did but when looking through available post mission analysis reports I haven't seen anything which comments upon this. The answer is likely self evident to any planetary scientist but as a layperson I thought I'd ask.  :)

Take a geologist to a mountain and tell him he can collect as many rocks in a ten minute time frame.  I doubt there would be that much difference than an engineer with a few months geologic training. Although I have no hard evidence, I suspect that they selected rocks that looked interesting to them.
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Offline raven

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2018, 12:13:56 AM »
Quote from: bknight on September 14, 2018, 10:49:49 PM
Take a geologist to a mountain and tell him he can collect as many rocks in a ten minute time frame.  I doubt there would be that much difference than an engineer with a few months geologic training. Although I have no hard evidence, I suspect that they selected rocks that looked interesting to them.
Besides, they're moon rocks. Basically any of them would be a treasure trove of scientific data, I'd think.
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Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2018, 12:31:28 AM »
As the missions progressed the EVAs got longer and spread further afield, giving them access to a wider range. Added to that is that later sites were chosen specifically for their geological interest rather than ease of access.
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Offline Abaddon

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Re: Holland Moon-Rock Revealed !
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2018, 06:40:07 AM »
Quote from: bknight on September 14, 2018, 10:49:49 PM
Quote from: MartinC on September 14, 2018, 01:14:47 PM
A discussion around the Lunar samples with a HB usually reveals how completely dishonest they can be - a fake moon rock of unknown origin apparently means all Apollo (and Luna) samples are also fake.

I do have a further question though. If we compare the Apollo 17 sample collection with those from earlier missions is there a noticeable difference in "quality". By that I mean did the presence of a professional geologist on the lunar surface result in improved sample selection? I would have assumed it did but when looking through available post mission analysis reports I haven't seen anything which comments upon this. The answer is likely self evident to any planetary scientist but as a layperson I thought I'd ask.  :)

Take a geologist to a mountain and tell him he can collect as many rocks in a ten minute time frame.  I doubt there would be that much difference than an engineer with a few months geologic training. Although I have no hard evidence, I suspect that they selected rocks that looked interesting to them.
To an extent, that was true that samples came from whatever looked interesting. What other criteria had they to work with? On A17 Schmitt, an actual geologist, went up.

Geologist who are also test pilots are just a little thin on the ground.
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