Author Topic: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch  (Read 203353 times)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #315 on: December 21, 2018, 04:36:41 PM »
In any event, I think people are only fooling themselves that all this technology is explainable with scientific verification. People I think rely as much on belief and faith, then a solid technical foundation that this technology operated as advertised. I know others disagree...

I disagree because you're essentially telling me I know know how to, and can't, do my job.  You still haven't wrapped your head around the fact that some people know these things.

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I respect and acknowledge you have valid points.

No.  There is no respect here.  You can't bring yourself to admit you are wrong even when it's mathematically proven to your face from your own sources.  All you can manage to say is that your critics have "valid points" but you're just going to continue believing what you want anyway.  That is highly disrespectful, given the feedback you've received.  Your defense boils down to insisting that other people can't possibly know what they know.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 04:43:29 PM by JayUtah »
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #316 on: December 21, 2018, 04:41:10 PM »
Gish gallop noted.
Instead of trying to change the subject just answer the simple maths question (and the others) that you have been already asked.

No-one is really that interested in your demonstration of your lack of knowledge about pressure suits.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #317 on: December 21, 2018, 04:42:03 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I think all you guys make some reasonable points.

No, do not change the subject and try to bring more stuff to the table before addrsssing the questions put to you about the stuff you already have under discussion.

Address the challenge by multiple posters to use the equation in the memo you brought up as evidence to show how it indicates the LM in solo flight is potentially unstable.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #318 on: December 21, 2018, 04:45:21 PM »
jr, a small note LO as administer has asked the the number of images be held to a reasonable quantity.  He has to pay for the additional server space.
OK, for over 50 years the science/technology behind the PLSS, has in fact worked for every EVA since that time.  The literature is full of how and why it works, YOU just have to look it up. 

-Now as to the guy with the arm in a vacuum chamber, this is BS from Ralph Rene.  Note that the dfferential is 15 psi pending on the quality of vacuum.  Whereas the Apollo suits had roughly 3.5 psi differential.  In the longer mission the astronauts complained about fatigue in their hands.  But there is quite a big difference.  You need to start analyzing the BS on YT.

The suits were built with a leakage tolerance, again YOU need to look this up as it is there.  No mystery why the suits worked, with the leakage.  Yes one tear would be disastrous, but again the suits were robust, no tears even with the acrobatics of the astronauts. Should they have done what they did, perhaps, perhaps not, but remember these guys were on a landscape 240000 miles from which they grew up with.  And the temptation to push the envelope was in their training.
 
And your Gish Gallop continues.  Why not stick to one subject until you understand?  It is your choice but every argument has been brought up in some manner in some of the forums on the net.  You have provided nothing new, nor shown that Apollo was fake.

ETA 15 before psi
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 04:48:25 PM by bknight »
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Offline Von_Smith

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #319 on: December 21, 2018, 04:57:13 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I think all you guys make some reasonable points. But, if 50 years later, we are left to reverse engineer most things there is something wrong. It is absolutely troubling that the technical insights for many things are lacking. I would love to see, for instance, the technical workings/insights of how the PLSS/spacesuit functions, ie battery components, environment systems, breathing systems (a re-circulating CO-2 scrubber ?) and the how the suit remains a closed environment. All these aspects have huge applicable uses for us today.

You do realize that spacesuits are still used today, right?  It isn't just Apollo.

Or is it your position that *all* EVAs are fake?

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #320 on: December 21, 2018, 05:36:32 PM »
You do realize that spacesuits are still used today, right?  It isn't just Apollo.

Or is it your position that *all* EVAs are fake?

You beat me to it. There was another thread about the sublimator and the PLSS not doing what is said on the tin. If I recall that poster  used similar arguments about poor documentation and how we (as believers) use extrapolation of current technologies as a flawed argument for the evidence of Apollo; i.e. it can be done now so it could be done then.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

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Offline molesworth

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #321 on: December 21, 2018, 05:46:24 PM »
I think all you guys make some reasonable points.
So are you willing to concede that you were wrong on any specific topics?  Or enter into a rational discussion on them?

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But, if 50 years later, we are left to reverse engineer most things there is something wrong. It is absolutely troubling that the technical insights for many things are lacking.
Do you actually know what "reverse engineering" means?  And have you read any of the posts since your last visit which show just how much detailed technical documentation is available for almost every aspect of the Apollo programme?  You certainly aren't giving the impression that you've understood anything said to you.

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I would love to see, for instance, the technical workings/insights of how the PLSS/spacesuit functions, ie battery components, environment systems, breathing systems (a re-circulating CO-2 scrubber ?) and the how the suit remains a closed environment. All these aspects have huge applicable uses for us today.
Again, all of this in formation is available, if you take the time to look for it.  And do you think today's space suits were developed without any reference to previous designs?  Do you not think the Apollo era systems were improved and adapted over the years?

Oh, and does the name "Gish" mean anything to you?  ;)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 05:51:04 PM by molesworth »
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Offline Abaddon

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #322 on: December 21, 2018, 05:51:13 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I think all you guys make some reasonable points. But, if 50 years later, we are left to reverse engineer most things there is something wrong. It is absolutely troubling that the technical insights for many things are lacking. I would love to see, for instance, the technical workings/insights of how the PLSS/spacesuit functions, ie battery components, environment systems, breathing systems (a re-circulating CO-2 scrubber ?) and the how the suit remains a closed environment. All these aspects have huge applicable uses for us today.

You do realize that spacesuits are still used today, right?  It isn't just Apollo.

Or is it your position that *all* EVAs are fake?
It's hilarious. JR seems unaware that the very same suits remain in use and documentaries have been made that go down to the individual doing the stitching for the actual suits.

Standby for the inevitable "zips can't hold pressure" claim.

We had the very same with some other twonk some time back. JR is edging to recycle that ball of crap.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #323 on: December 21, 2018, 05:55:06 PM »
That was Neil Baker...the bloke that went postal, threatens to shoot up Santa Barbara Uni, made bomb threats and spent a long period of time in a mental hospital. He was a vicious anti-Semite too.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline BDL

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #324 on: December 21, 2018, 05:57:27 PM »
That was Neil Baker...the bloke that went postal, threatens to shoot up Santa Barbara Uni, made bomb threats and spent a long period of time in a mental hospital. He was a vicious anti-Semite too.
Neil Baker? I feel like I’ve heard that name before but I’m not sure who he is.. is he a conspiracist or something?
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Offline Abaddon

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #325 on: December 21, 2018, 06:02:56 PM »
That was Neil Baker...the bloke that went postal, threatens to shoot up Santa Barbara Uni, made bomb threats and spent a long period of time in a mental hospital. He was a vicious anti-Semite too.
Neil Baker? I feel like I’ve heard that name before but I’m not sure who he is.. is he a conspiracist or something?
He was a wonky member here. He bought a ban and some "help".

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #326 on: December 21, 2018, 06:06:12 PM »
That was Neil Baker...the bloke that went postal, threatens to shoot up Santa Barbara Uni, made bomb threats and spent a long period of time in a mental hospital. He was a vicious anti-Semite too.
Neil Baker? I feel like I’ve heard that name before but I’m not sure who he is.. is he a conspiracist or something?

https://www.independent.com/news/2013/dec/12/former-ucsb-employee-neil-baker-sentenced-probatio/?amp=amp
Yes. He believes that the PLSS, specifically the sublimator, could not work. He's also a Holocaust denier and all round nasty piece of work.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline raven

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #327 on: December 21, 2018, 06:12:02 PM »

https://www.independent.com/news/2013/dec/12/former-ucsb-employee-neil-baker-sentenced-probatio/?amp=amp
Yes. He believes that the PLSS, specifically the sublimator, could not work. He's also a Holocaust denier and all round nasty piece of work.
Oh, and he believed any reference to the sublimator dated to only a  certain date. Then I linked to NASA's page on them from the Wayback machine. I don't think he ever gave any solid reply to that.
Honestly, I feel sorry for the guy. I would not wish him on himself.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #328 on: December 21, 2018, 06:46:36 PM »
Not quite the same, but SpaceX has been 3D printing valves and nozzles for a number of years now.
As well as lots of other objects. One of the stops on the Hawthorne plant tour (I've been there twice) is their "titanium 3D printer". There is a collection of small parts (mostly gears) for you to examine. Impressive.

I'm not a mechanical or materials person but it looks like the titanium is sintered.

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: Apollo 11 Lunar Lander Pre-Launch
« Reply #329 on: December 21, 2018, 07:02:30 PM »
Sooo...you are trying to tell us that space suits don't work?  The ISS astronauts would be interested to know that.
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