LRO photos show ascent stage still on the ground?

[raven]

As I don't want to infringe on anyones copyrights,  the photos can be found at  www.space.com/12796-photos-apollo-moon-landing-sites-lro.html  The LEM shadow looks rounded with a longer protrusion resembling an antenna, possibly. Looks like the full LEM.

Looking at the LM itself, I think I can see the hole in the centre of the descent stage over the descent stage. Normally this would have been covered by Kapton, but the exhaust of the ascent stage lift off likely blew it away.
Also, looking closely at your 'rounded shadow' I believe I can see a brighter area in the shadow.
This makes me think it might be the shadow v shaped things (they have a name, but I admit it is unknown to me) sticking from the descent stage seen here on Apollo 17. And before you ask, the camera was mounted on the rover and remote controlled from Mission Control.
Admittedly, this is uneducated hypothesizing and musing on my part, I am not a professional or even particularly skilled amateur image analyst.
These are my thoughts and mine alone.
If I am wrong, I am wrong and find no shame in it but only a chance to learn.

[Count Zero]

Michael Bay doesn't care about anything so just left it.

$ure he doe$!

[ka9q]

Also, looking closely at your 'rounded shadow' I believe I can see a brighter area in the shadow.
This makes me think it might be the shadow v shaped things (they have a name, but I admit it is unknown to me) sticking from the descent stage

I think you're referring to the four RCS plume deflectors. They were mounted on the descent stage  to deflect the +X RCS (downward pointing) plumes away from the descent stage. I think they were a relatively late addition; they certainly do look like a kludge.

Because these deflectors project well above the deck of the descent stage, they cast spiky shadows on the surface at low sun angles as seen in the LRO images. They are almost certainly casting the shadows that Inconceivable thinks is the ascent stage.

There are pictures of the intact LM sitting on the surface, taken by the CSM's high resolution cameras on the J-class missions (Apollos 15, 16, 17). They could be used as a comparison to show that the LRO images are definitely of the descent stages alone.

[raven]

Yes, I believe that is what I am referring to. Thank you. 

[ka9q]

I had to go back and watch that Futurama episode; I'd forgotten about that gag.

It was amusing how they didn't show the sign until some time after Fry and Leela discover the LM. Just long enough for the geeks in the audience to realize that the ascent stage shouldn't be there and to get smug about having found an error.

But there are other errors in that scene, such as the direction of the sun.

[stargazer711]

I just looked at the link you provided, and see nothing at all that looks like anything other than a LM descent stage. You have clearly been drinking the conspiracy wacko kool aid. You should try to get off that stuff, might have to enter a twelve step program.

[Zakalwe]

To me. it looks like the descent stage is overexposed (not inconceivable, as the images would have the exposure set to correctly expose the regolith). The white spots near the descent stage are probably the disposed PLSS packs and the other rubbish that was dumped before ascent. You can see the PLSS in the images of the Apollo 12 landing site here:

http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/articles/lro-images-apollo-12-landing-site/

 

[smartcooky]

Looking at the shadow of the DS on the surface, and comparing it with the diagram of the AS and DS separated, it certainly looks more like the DS than the whole LM.

The area around the lander was quite flat, so if the AS were still attached, the shadow would be a lot longer (see the shadow in the crater at top right for comparison)

IMO, the "lump" in the DS shadow at about 11 o'clock looks like it might be top of the egress platform, or possibly one of the plume deflectors.


NOTE: I see the diagram doesn't show the plume deflectors. I thought they were attached half way between the landing struts on each side.

[ka9q]

I think the plume deflectors were added after Apollo 9. A picture of Spider in earth orbit doesn't show them.

They do stick well above the top deck of the LM descent stage, so they definitely cast some spikey shadows at low sun angle.

Many of the LMs landed with some yaw, particularly Apollo 11. This is most easily seen in the LRO photos by looking at the footpads. So even the LM descent stages at equatorial sites generally don't cast symmetrical shadows.

[ka9q]

I think the plume deflectors were not on Apollo 10 either. They were definitely not present as the LM was stacked in the Lunar Module Adapter on top of the S-IVB. To rule out the possibility that they were added after the vehicle was stacked, I looked at AFJ images of Snoopy taken from the CSM Charlie Brown after separation in lunar orbit. They're not of high quality but I still can't see any evidence of plume deflectors. So I think the deflectors were first added to Apollo 11's Eagle.

[Echnaton]

IIRD, the plume deflectors were added to Eagle after the A11 rocket was stacked. Eagle was the first to use them. 

[smartcooky]

The photo on my earlier post was of the Apollo 17 landing site

When you watch the video of the AS lift-off....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=cOdzhQS_MMw
(NOTE: I tried to embed this video but it didn't work)

...its pretty clear that at least one of the plume deflectors (the near left as viewed from the camera) is blasted away by the rocket exhaust.

However, this view from the lunar rover camera shows what appears to be the other three still intact.

[raven]

That would be awfully weird considering that it was one continuous shot.
To me it looks more like it is being obscured by flying debris.

[JayUtah]

To me it looks more like it is being obscured by flying debris.

There were a number of insulation blankets atop the descent stage, ostensibly to help absorb, diffuse, and deflect the APS plume.  They didn't want it rebounding and damaging the underside of the descent stage, so they made sure there was a lot of crinkly stuff under it to disrupt the fluid flow.  It looks like a lot of that blanket film ended up snagged in the plume deflectors, and it may be creating false outlines.

I love this particular clip also for the "no plume" naysayers.  At the "Pitchover!" call you can look directly up the APS nozzle skirt (giggle) and see into the APS thrust chamber where it is most distinctly glowing.  While we don't expect the plume to remain incandescent after it exits, there is every expectation it should incandesce while in the thrust chamber.  And we have photographic proof of it.

[Count Zero]

And we have photographic proof of it.

Videotic?

New word!  I claim it.  It's mine.  You all saw it here first...