Author Topic: HB using Newton to prove the lunar rovers were fake  (Read 10708 times)

Offline Peter B

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HB using Newton to prove the lunar rovers were fake
« on: September 12, 2012, 08:44:12 AM »
http://www.abcforums.com/showthread.php?2652-Newton-proves-that-lunar-rovers-are-fake

I thought you might like to read how the Australian Self-Service Science Forum community are taking on an HB who has unusual ideas of how the lunar rovers should have behaved.

I readily admit this is one topic where I'm out of my depth - I understand the difference between weight and mass, but I'm completely at a loss about why L_D's claims are wrong. For example, I understand he has a point about loss of traction, given that friction is proportional to weight, but inertia is proportional to mass, although he's being dismissed by other posters.

Incidentally, L_D is also a 9/11 Truther.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: HB using Newton to prove the lunar rovers were fake
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 04:31:27 PM »
"The equation for force..."

Um, no.  That's the relationship among force, mass, and acceleration for velocity-state dynamics.  It has nothing to do with force in general or collision dynamics.  He's dead in the water right there in the first paragraph.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: HB using Newton to prove the lunar rovers were fake
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 04:44:08 PM »
For starters, F = m*a isn't "the equation for force", it's the equation that relates force to mass and acceleration. For the force exerted by an astronaut sitting on the vehicle, the acceleration is the gravitational acceleration, which on the moon is 1/6th of Earth's. His claim that "weight doesn't enter the equation at all" is wrong, F is the weight in this instance.

Gravity would be less relevant in a high speed collision, but they tried to avoid those for obvious reasons. The vehicle's maximum speed was 8 mph, 3.6 m/s, and its loaded mass was 700 kg. We can ballpark the maximum forward acceleration on flat ground using the time required to give it its kinetic energy at top speed...(0.5*700 kg*(3.6 m/s)^2)/(745 watts) = 6 seconds, meaning a forward acceleration of 0.6 m/s^2...about a third of lunar gravity. The dominant force on the vehicle was gravity, which exerted 1/6th the force on the moon...not "basically the same as here on Earth".

As for the motor power issue, the reduced gravity basically meant that climbing a given slope took 1/6th the power, and the kinetic energy lost by rolling up a hill was 1/6th as high. So while the acceleration on flat ground would be the same, the same vehicle would be able to accelerate up a much steeper hill/drive over larger obstacles in lunar gravity, and once moving, the vehicle could roll over hills 6 times as tall using only enough power to counter friction losses.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 04:46:07 PM by cjameshuff »

Offline nomuse

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Re: HB using Newton to prove the lunar rovers were fake
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 01:46:07 PM »
Oh, Newton. 

When I first saw this thread, I thought he was saying he'd used a Newton.

Probably didn't need the handwriting recognition, tho.



(Obligatory Pterry quote:  "Squiggly bits, spiky bits...yup, that's handwriting all right.  I'd recognize it anywhere.")