Author Topic: Hello... I'm....  (Read 23495 times)

Offline smartcooky

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Hello... I'm....
« on: September 21, 2012, 07:16:46 PM »
I can't find a place to introduce myself here, so if this isn't the right place, I apologise.

I have already posted here, so I guess I had better put my cards on the table, and I'll try to be brief.

I am an "AB" (Apollo Believer). I am in my mid 50's, so like some others here (ka9Q?) I experienced the moon shots first hand as a teenager (unlike most HB's whom I suspect the vast majority of were post moonshot). 

In my youth, I was fascinated by space (I still am) and inspired by people like Patrick Moore, and many years later, by Carl Sagan. I followed the Apollo story listening to Voice of America shortwave broadcasts in the 19m and 25m bands, but unlike many, because I lived in New Zealand, I didn't see the Apollo landing and Neil Armstrong's first steps live. In those days, there was no way to get a live satellite TV feed to this country (the first one wasn't until 1973). Instead, I was in my High School Assembly Hall on a Monday afternoon shortly before 3 o'clock along with the rest of the students, listening to it on the radio which was being broadcast through the hall's PA system.

My experience base is that I spent 20 years in the military (1973-93) as an Avionics Engineer, working on electrical, electronics, radar and radio systems, both airborne and ground-based. After retiring from there, I started a photographic business which I still own to this day.

I find it extraordinary that anyone could believe NASA would have gone to all the trouble of faking the Apollo programme when it would have been much more difficult and much more expensive than actually doing it for real. While a lot of debunkers seem to focus on proving using technical reasons, that things weren't faked, my focus has always been on the "why".

For example, if beating the Soviets to the moon was the only goal, then why not take the simplest, cheapest option and quit after faking Apollo 11; why go on and do it again another five (potentially six) times instead of taking a "mission accomplished" or a  "been there done that" attitude. Six more very public and hideously expensive Saturn V launches and six more splashdown recovery operations. A catastrophic failure of any one of these would have left them with the "Capricorn One" scenario, inconvenient, live astronauts. Additionally, five (potentially six) more recording studio sessions dramatically increases the chances of a mistake, and therefore discovery; remember, there is no CGI post production available at that time, so it would all have to be done "live"; the slightest error, and the game's up!

Also, why didn't they just go ahead with the mission when the "problems" occurred on Apollo 13. The fake Lunar Landing set would surely have been ready. If they faked the approach and landing footage for Apollo 11 and 12, why not just do the same for 13. No-one would have been the wiser.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline ChrLz

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 05:28:19 AM »
Nice to meet you - and it's obvious from your post and the points you made that you are your name!

Offline gwiz

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 06:17:53 AM »
I can't find a place to introduce myself here, so if this isn't the right place, I apologise.
Here's the place you want:
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=20.0
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 07:59:45 AM »
Welcome to the forum.  I'd say that this is as good of a place to introduce yourself as any. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 11:45:28 AM »
Welcome, Smartcooky.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 08:52:03 AM »
...unlike many, because I lived in New Zealand, I didn't see the Apollo landing and Neil Armstrong's first steps live.

Welcome Smartcooky.  You're one of few who says that -- many Kiwis who were in New Zealand have said they saw the EVA live on TV, including one of my sisters.  It just shows how memories can become corrupted over the years.

Did you see the video of the EVA on Channel 1 at 7:30 that night, Monday 21 July 1969?  I didn't because I didn't have TV at the time.  After listening to the landing live on the radio at work I was too excited to get anything done, so took the afternoon off on leave and wandered around Lambton Quay and Willis Street in Wellington and watched a little of the talking heads on TV before and during the EVA.  Caught a good view of the moon on the way home about ten minutes after the EVA ended.

I have all the major events of the Apollo missions listed with their NZSTs if you want them.  Apollo 11's landing occurred at 8:17:40am and Armstrong's first step onto the moon at 2:56:15pm, 21 July 1969 NZST.

Are you not in New Zealand now?  We have a little in common, because later on I had a photography business too.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 08:59:58 AM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 03:53:18 PM »
Yes, I have lived in New Zealand since 1961 when my parents emigrated.

I can't remember if the EVA films were shown the same night or not, but I have a feeling it wasn't for a couple of days. I do remember for sure that the EVA was on a Monday afternoon though, because I had spent the weekend with my ears glued to my old Stewart Warner R136 short-wave radio listing to the reports from the VOA all through the night. My Father (bless him) allowed me to stay up and listen, as he understood the importance of this event. He was a radio engineer, and a ham radio operator, and he even modified the radio to take a pair of headphones so that I would not be keeping them awake at night.

There was only one TV channel in 1969, and it was still in B&W. I lived in Nelson (still do) so we watched WNTV1. Colour didn't arrive until the second channel opened in 1975(?).  In those days, the news wasn't even networked or live. It was pre-recorded and mostly featured a talking head reading the news, with very little video. It was not until late 1969 (after Apollo 11) that the NZBC's first live network news bulletin was broadcast.

If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 04:44:02 AM »
PS:

Quote
wandered around Lambton Quay and Willis Street in Wellington and watched a little of the talking heads on TV before and during the EVA.

One of those Talking Heads was bound to have been Peter Read

http://www.nzonscreen.com/person/peter-read?tab=biography

"In 1966 Read also began presenting Horizon: an additional series about space and the stars, but with more of a general science bent. By now he was also the presenter of Town and Around, Wellington’s nightly regional news show — a role he would fill for five years years.

With his horn-rimmed spectacles and avuncular manner, Peter Read became one of the most familiar local faces on television in the 60s. As the space race accelerated, he was there on The Night Sky to explain each new development (as well as highlighting the month to month changes in the heavens).

In 1969, while New Zealand waited for footage to arrive of Neil Armstrong setting foot on the moon, Peter Read was in the studio adlibbing a half hour show and demonstrating the manoeuvres of the moon landing module (although it was later discovered that the model he used wasn’t quite the correct one)."


If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 06:47:55 AM »
I can't remember if the EVA films were shown the same night or not...

Here's the story:

Quote
Manawatu Evening Standard,  Tuesday 22 July 1969, page 6
Quick trip for Apollo film

NZPA  Wellington, July 21

Some 4-1/2 hours after astronauts Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin set foot on the moon today, New Zealanders saw a film of the historic event in a nation-wide television hook-up.

The 40-minute videotape was rushed to Wellington aboard an RNZAF Canberra bomber.

The videotape was recorded this afternoon at the Australian Broadcasting Commission's Gore Hill studios north of Sydney.

The Canberra carrying the tape left Kingsford Smith Airport, Sydney, at 4:15 p.m., and after a 2-3/4-hour flight, touched down at Wellington just before 7 p.m., an NZBC spokesman said tonight.

It was taken to Channel I in a car accompanied by a Ministry of Transport officer, in time to be shown in the NZBC's 7:30 p.m. news.

The spokesman said Customs and air traffic officials in both Sydney and Wellington gave the Canberra priority status, allowing it to clear formalities in the minimum time.

He said the corporation had not known until late this afternoon what time the tape would be available.  The historic screening was rescheduled three times.

If the Canberra had been unable to land at Wellington it would have gone to Auckland, and the national network hook-up made from there.

Have you been rubbishing the "hoax" on the Trade Me Message Board in the last few weeks?  There's been a level-headed guy there who has spent time in the military.  About three of us get stuck in at times, but it's rare to convince anyone of anything.  Still, it helps the fence-sitters if we put our facts across.  I'm "dbb" there and started at post 167 in this thread:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1102824&p=4&topic=5


I had forgotten about Peter Read -- used to enjoy his TV programmes.  Some of the folks at the Carter Observatory used to pop into my camera store for a chat.  One of them gave me a small match-head-sized piece of moon rock to hold in one hand, plus a small piece of aluminium from Surveyor 3 for the other hand.  A fairly unique experience.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 07:05:35 AM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 08:54:23 AM »
Have you been rubbishing the "hoax" on the Trade Me Message Board in the last few weeks?  There's been a level-headed guy there who has spent time in the military.  About three of us get stuck in at times, but it's rare to convince anyone of anything.  Still, it helps the fence-sitters if we put our facts across.  I'm "dbb" there and started at post 167 in this thread:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1102824&p=4&topic=5

Had a look and just posted there (same name as here)

Quote
I had forgotten about Peter Read -- used to enjoy his TV programmes.  Some of the folks at the Carter Observatory used to pop into my camera store for a chat.  One of them gave me a small match-head-sized piece of moon rock to hold in one hand, plus a small piece of aluminium from Surveyor 3 for the other hand.  A fairly unique experience.

I met him once at a Nelson RASNZ when he was a guest speaker. Very interesting chap

What camera shop did/do you own in Wellington?

Do you know Chris W?
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2012, 05:22:19 PM »
I followed the Apollo story listening to Voice of America shortwave broadcasts in the 19m and 25m bands, but unlike many, because I lived in New Zealand, I didn't see the Apollo landing and Neil Armstrong's first steps live. In those days, there was no way to get a live satellite TV feed to this country
Isn't it amazing how far communications has come, well within a single life span? Not only did you get international satellite communications in New Zealand, it's already been largely supplanted by undersea optical fiber. Today, NZ is a major Pacific communications hub and I bet the local kids can't even conceive of a time when their country was so isolated and remote that they couldn't watch a major news event live, on their TVs -- or on their portable computers.

Having worked in the communications field all my career, my subjective sense of time compression is especially acute. I can remember that I used to think that progress seemed so slow. There were so many good innovations that didn't seem to be going anywhere. Then, wham!, everyone had a computer on the Internet and digital mobile phones. Funny how that happens.



Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 07:14:06 PM »
ka9q

Just a couple of questions.

Are you a Ham Radio operator and is ka9q your call-sign?

If so, did you choose that call-sign?

(I guess you know why I am asking the second question)
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2012, 03:46:23 AM »
Yes, I'm a ham but I did not choose that callsign. I originally had WN3RVL when first licensed in 1971; when I got my Advanced class license in 1972 it changed to WA3RVL. I kept that until 1980 when, while living in Illinois, I applied for a 2x1 callsign and was assigned KA9Q. I kept it while moving to NJ and then to CA, where I live now.
 

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 04:47:37 AM »
OK. You probably already know this.

The KA9Q Network Operating System was a serial protocol that preceded TCP/IP. It was used for amateur packet radio back in the days of DOS 286/386  and Apple II+ computers and was used for the original BBS' that evolved into the internet we have today.

This is why I thought you might have requested the callsign.

I used to have a "T" call many years ago (it was a 2m and above restricted licence - Morse was always a stumbling block for me) but it has long since lapsed.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Hello... I'm....
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 09:52:33 AM »
Have you been rubbishing the "hoax" on the Trade Me Message Board in the last few weeks?  ...I'm "dbb" there and started at post 167 in this thread: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1102824&p=4&topic=5

Had a look and just posted there (same name as here)

What camera shop did/do you own in Wellington?

Do you know Chris W?

1. Yes, before coming here tonight I saw the thread was resurrected.  Some posters on our side are sqawks and nzgunnie, also pzkpfw who is a member here.  There's a bit of whaffle in it from me because I was dropping hints to one of the HBs about how to find my name and address in the hope he might take a 35-minute trip and view some of my Apollo materials, but he didn't notice them.  In a way I was glad he didn't, because he came across as quite nutty.  [To others who are wondering why the hints, the website is that of the NZ equivalent of Ebay and we are not allowed to reveal contact details on the message board, which can be a nuisance at times.]

2. I first managed Rembrandt Studios (a small shop, studio and darkroom) in an arcade off Willis Street, next to the big, ugly, black BNZ building, from 1975, then started my own studio, Image Workshop, in Newtown, and later bought Rembrandt Studios.  Like many other Wellington businesses it became a casualty of the aftermath of the 1987 sharemarket crash and I closed it in February 1989.

3.  I don't recall a Chris W.

You and I are two of very few who have talked about Sir Bernard Lovell's role in the early space race.  He's mentioned in a few of the newspaper clippings I have of the Apollo 11 mission.  Just a few months ago I wondered what had happened to him, then on the 10th of August learnt that he had died on the 6th, aged 98.

My local paper printed his obituary from The Times.  I tried to get an online copy but had to be enrolled at The Times, and couldn't find any others online.

One interesting fact about him that was new to me was in the obituary:
Quote
Lovell co-operated with Soviet and US scientists in space research.  In September 1959, using the Jodrell Bank telescope to track Lunik 2, he was able to confirm that the Soviet spacecraft aimed at the moon had actually hit it.  This was the only way of verifying that the spacecraft had reached the moon.

So he was tracking spacecraft at the moon nine years before manned missions got there.

I've long wondered what exactly NZ Ham Radio operators could do regarding spacecraft.  Some of them picked up signals from Sputnik 1, but I don't know anything about later, particularly manned, missions.  Do you know anything or have you any useful contacts?  Few HBs know anything about Hams, but I don't know much that's useful either.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:27:43 AM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)